45-70 BP Supplies/Accessories

A

Andrew28

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Vancouver
Hi All,

Just got myself a Chiappa 45-70 sharps replica (my first 45-70 and I can see a few more in the future). Very excited to reload/shoot this in BP and seeing the smoke !

Need help finding a few items and ordering from the states is next to impossible due to shipping cost and restrictions. Also would like to support Canadian business whenever possible.

Looking specifically for a blow tube and brass drop tube. Any retailers in Canada ? I also don't mind buying from someone who can craft these.

Another question, anyone using smokeless, particularly Unique or Red Dot?

Thanks and looking forward to your replies !
 
I just use vaccum line as a blow tube, and an old chunk of small diameter copper tube screwed to a board for a drop tube. Make funnels if needed (cut off cartridge cases work well).

What I can't get for any reasonable price up where I'm at, is black powder (unless I want to pay a fortune in shipping fees). It used to be on the shelf locally but those days are gone and I'm almost out :(
 
Its looking like these items have to be improvised and self made.

Vaccum line as from a vehicle? Copper tube and PVC tubing, Home Depot should have. Funnel from cut off cartridge, can you clarify?
 
Yessir, actually its clear fuel line (like on a snowmobile), sorry, not vaccum line. Either would work fine though. I would have got it at Canadian Tire.

Use copper or brass tubing, the plastic can generate static. Hobby store, hardware store.

I just cut off the top of a bottlenecked cartridge, like a .30-06 or .223 etc and flip it upside down, can solder it, epoxy, even crimp as long as it seals and you can use brass/copper fittings to increase the size as needed. For .45-70 I use .30-06 / .308 etc

I'll take some pictures here shortly so you can see what I mean.
 
Awesome ! Look forward to your photos. Guess I am going to home depot and canadian tire today.

Powder of choice, 2FG ? Blackhorn 209 looks good but very pricey. Veggie wad ? Will load between 55-70 grains. Need to order a compression die as well.
 
Here's the drop tube:
hIxe1OA.jpg


And one of my funnels, to give you an idea:
UxLTCHe.jpg


Loads, when loading Goex I use 2Fg or Cartridge Grade. Unfortunately it's becoming a rare commodity but I still have some here. So I have tried Triple 7 and just picked some Pyrodex (that I have yet to try). Drop tube and I've played around with wads and cards and controlled compression, but for just hitting the range honestly I fill the case with powder, compress with the bullet. Let's me load more faster :) The bullet you are using will really determine whether you need a lube cookie and wads/cards under the bullet, most of mine have enough lube to carry it down my Pedersoli Sharps barrel and I can get some great groups at 100 yards with just powder and bullet (our range is pretty short and my eyes are bad, unfortunately no gongs out past 100 at our local one).

I should add that the lube you are using will really make a difference here too. There are a million different recipes and opinions here, I use a straight 50/50 beeswax & olive oil recipe that I swear by and will fall by :) BUT that doesn't mean anyone else is wrong - just another avenue to explore and form your own opinion. I've done a lot of pan lubing but last year I finally stumbled into an old Lyman lubrisizer and never looked back. I cleaned out the Lyman "hopper" and poured my lube into it, it has been working great.

Slug your bore too, and play around with different diameters. You may find that .459" is not quite "fat" enough for your barrel.

I am not breach seating, but I am seating my bullets out and COAL right now seems happy at around 2.63"
 
Thanks for the tips ! I got a good idea about the drop tube now. My craftsmanship is not the best and it might not pretty but I am sure it does the job.

Bullets will be ordered through Budget, Missouri Bullets for BP. I am not sure what lube they used.

I am not casting yet, maybe after retirement but no time now. My range is limited to 200 yards but my eyes can barely see at 100. No gongs either.

Add lead sinkers to my Canadian tire list for slugging.

You never shoot smokeless in the 45-70 ?
 
Great; and half the fun is in the journey. If the lube is sufficient then you'll see it at the muzzle end so pay attention there. If you don't have enough it will be dry and you'll start seeing fouling rings.

Yup I load a lot of smokeless as well, actually loaded up about 50 yesterday with H4895. Also load with 4198 and Trail Boss. Largely driven by the scarcity of BP, but hey. Although I love the Trail Boss loads for a light recoiling plinker and itis fine for steel (when there is steel there) BUT I notice that Trail Boss groups are pretty large. I get the best accuracy with mine using 2Fg Goex, but with smokeless my best accuracy seems to be with 4895. I wish SR4759 was still around, I want to try out AA 5744.
 
Recoil with a reasonable 45/70 load is not bad. However, I'd start with 330- 400 grain loads and work up from there. Most of those at Trapdoor pressures, are very comfortable.

My Pedersoli does well with 500 grain bullets... but my shoulder does not. I'm trying to find a compromise load that would let me blast the 500's a little more, but... I have a hard time sitting there for a string of more than 10.
 
Andrew28 said:
Thanks for the tips ! I got a good idea about the drop tube now. My craftsmanship is not the best and it might not pretty but I am sure it does the job.

Bullets will be ordered through Budget, Missouri Bullets for BP. I am not sure what lube they used.

I am not casting yet, maybe after retirement but no time now. My range is limited to 200 yards but my eyes can barely see at 100. No gongs either.

Add lead sinkers to my Canadian tire list for slugging.

You never shoot smokeless in the 45-70 ?
Click to expand...

Be careful with the lead sinkers. I've bought quite a few that were nothing like soft pure lead. They were super hard, maybe a high zinc percentage or something. I wouldn't want to drive those down the bore. If you get a soft lead bullet you can increase the diameter slightly by squeezing it ( endwise ) in a vice, or by whacking it with a mallet. It only needs to be a little bit bigger than groove to do the trick.

Chris.
 
Recoil tolerance is always a factor with BPCRs. That's why 45-110s and 45-120s go through a lot of hands looking for a home and guys with Marlin 45-70 Guide Guns shooting macho loads don't enjoy it.

Light barrel 45-70s will kick the snot out of you using bullets that weight more than 520 grs., especially if you shoot from the bench. My Farmingdale Shiloh 45-70 Business Rifle has a heavy barrel and I actually enjoy shooting it for long strings from prone with x-stix with 520 gr bullets. With my Shiloh #1 Sporter in 45-70 (tapered octagonal barrel), I'm more comfortable wearing a thin PAST shoulder pad.

A pal once took on the job of working up a load for a guy's 45-100 original. It had a thin barrel by current standards. He had a 25 lb bag of shot hanging from the barrel on a cord to tame recoil. By the time he was done, he had developed a world class flinch.

By all means , try some smokeless loads, especially with 4198 and 5744, BUT (and it's a big but ...), you miss something by not shooting BP out of a Sharps, the powder it was designed to shoot with. Labour intensive loading, yes, dirty brass to clean, yes. Fun factor, off the scale! The rifle itself is as easy to clean as a soul less, smokeless rifle.

Subscribe to the Black Powder Cartridge News and learn what the big boys in the game do with BP out to 1000 yds.
 
gunlaker said:
Be careful with the lead sinkers. I've bought quite a few that were nothing like soft pure lead. They were super hard, maybe a high zinc percentage or something. I wouldn't want to drive those down the bore. If you get a soft lead bullet you can increase the diameter slightly by squeezing it ( endwise ) in a vice, or by whacking it with a mallet. It only needs to be a little bit bigger than groove to do the trick.

Chris.
Click to expand...

Yes, Chris. Lots of sinkers these days are not pure lead or even lead at all. I know which ones from Canadian Tire are lead. I have been using some of these for my milsurps.
 
Sharps '74 said:
Recoil tolerance is always a factor with BPCRs. That's why 45-110s and 45-120s go through a lot of hands looking for a home and guys with Marlin 45-70 Guide Guns shooting macho loads don't enjoy it.

Light barrel 45-70s will kick the snot out of you using bullets that weight more than 520 grs., especially if you shoot from the bench. My Farmingdale Shiloh 45-70 Business Rifle has a heavy barrel and I actually enjoy shooting it for long strings from prone with x-stix with 520 gr bullets. With my Shiloh #1 Sporter in 45-70 (tapered octagonal barrel), I'm more comfortable wearing a thin PAST shoulder pad.

A pal once took on the job of working up a load for a guy's 45-100 original. It had a thin barrel by current standards. He had a 25 lb bag of shot hanging from the barrel on a cord to tame recoil. By the time he was done, he had developed a world class flinch.

By all means , try some smokeless loads, especially with 4198 and 5744, BUT (and it's a big but ...), you miss something by not shooting BP out of a Sharps, the powder it was designed to shoot with. Labour intensive loading, yes, dirty brass to clean, yes. Fun factor, off the scale! The rifle itself is as easy to clean as a soul less, smokeless rifle.

Subscribe to the Black Powder Cartridge News and learn what the big boys in the game do with BP out to 1000 yds.
Click to expand...

Wow, 1 Shiloh is not enough you have to get 2 ! When I decided I was going to get a 45-70, I was planning on shooting 70% smokeless reduced (red dot, unique), 20% smokeless (5744) and 10% BP (due to cleaning, loading etc). Now I am leaning towards 80% BP. 405gr Missouri Lead and 350gr Campro (Budget Shooting Supply).

My Chiappa has a 34" with a very thick/heavy barrel. Looks almost grotesque. I will post a photo or 2 when I get a chance.

I don't think I can see past 200 yards let alone 1000 yards.
 
Andrew28 said:
Wow, 1 Shiloh is not enough you have to get 2 ! When I decided I was going to get a 45-70, I was planning on shooting 70% smokeless reduced (red dot, unique), 20% smokeless (5744) and 10% BP (due to cleaning, loading etc). Now I am leaning towards 80% BP. 405gr Missouri Lead and 350gr Campro (Budget Shooting Supply).

My Chiappa has a 34" with a very thick/heavy barrel. Looks almost grotesque. I will post a photo or 2 when I get a chance.

I don't think I can see past 200 yards let alone 1000 yards.
Click to expand...

Don't worry, although I've never personally SHOT at 1,000 yards I can't really see at 100; the principle is the same: you pick an aiming point you CAN see, and that becomes your sight picture. Dial in from there.

I like shooting at paper plates, because your eye is an amazing thing; it will effectively center your shot through the successive circles. Even though I cannot see the center of the plate at 100 yards or beyond, somehow my shots end up in (or close to) the center. Same with round gongs...

and again I'll express my frustration at the cost of shipping real BP, for those of us some distance from a supplier... :(
 
BP cost more than smokeless to ship ?

How much do you buy at a time? How much does it cost shipped to you ?

Looks like I will need to drive about 120KMs (round trip) to buy mine. That will be $20 in gas so I better buy like 5#s at a time.

What is the shelf life with them ?
 
I was happy to find a near full case of Galena lube that I scored years ago from BC Rail and CP Rail. They used to use it to lube their hotboxes, lead bearings and steel axles :)
 
Andrew28 said:
BP cost more than smokeless to ship ?

How much do you buy at a time? How much does it cost shipped to you ?

Looks like I will need to drive about 120KMs (round trip) to buy mine. That will be $20 in gas so I better buy like 5#s at a time.

What is the shelf life with them ?
Click to expand...

Real black powder is a class 1 explosive whereas smokeless powder and the BP substitutes are flammable solids and in a different class. Shipping and storage requirements are different and more onerous so many dealers won't touch it.
Many clubs pool their orders and buy several 25lb kegs at once to minimize the cost per unit. If you can find any serious BP shooters in your area they might be able to hook you up.

Shelf life is indefinite as long as it stays dry.
 
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