45-70 bullet making

This is quite a process! You mention various dies - where do you get them from?

phishroy said:
sure.
ill try to explain the steps.
the steps can vary depending on the bullet made and tools used, ie flat base Vs boat tail or partition bullet Vs single core etc'.
i will explain a rough outline of the steps i take to create a single core flat base lead flat point bullet.
with jacketed bullets detail is important in every step, sure makes me have allot of respect for the guys at sierra Speer and other bullet manufacturers.
once you have the measurements for each step in the process in order to be able to duplicate that design die setup is critical.
ok... enough blabering...
here is the low down...
- first step determine jacket dimensions for bullet design, draw the jacket to correct diameter using a draw die which will be under 458, more closer to 450 at this point to start with.
- second step calculate desired finished jacket length after reaching 458 diameter (remember the diam' at this stage is still 450), flare the excess determined length with a flare punch and use a pinch trim die to remove the excess jacket length material. weigh the trimmed jacket, you will need this measurement for later.
- calculate the lead core needed in order to achieve final bullet weight, there is a formula to calculate lead wire diameter by length equals weight of lead.
forget about using wheal weights , scrap lead or range lead. the lead has to be at least 99% pure lead.
pure lead is consistent in weight and is soft enough to be squeezed easily without over pressuring the dies and breaking them.
the determined length of the lead core should correlate with the finished length of the finished jacket. too little lead and the nose of the jacket will buckle on itself at the end, lead core to long and you will end up with too much lead exposed or a half jacketed bullet.
cast some lead cores using an undersized core mold.
i made a simple core mold by drilling in between 2 halves of aluminum blocks 10 x 4x3/4 made 9 holes using a drill press each cavity is about 3.75 inches deep and 0.350 diameter. so each time a pop the mold i get 9 bits of pure lead wire about 3.75 inches long and 0.350 diameter.
- i cut the lead wire just a bit over my calculated length using a bench top sheet metal/ wire cutter that i got from busy bee tools and i created a length stop for it to make the process go faster.
so now i have a bunch of lead cores that are just a bit overweight.

i lubricate the lead cores using a very small amount of lanolin and i put each core in the core swage die.
i set the core swage die in the press to produce my calculated core end weight.
perfect die set up is important at this step or you will get a different weight bullet at the end.
this die will squish the lead and will expand it from 0.350 to 0.3955 and there is a bleed hole so any excess lead will squirt out the bleed hole. end results is a perfect cylindrical core in the desired calculated weight.
- next step is to remove any lubricant from the cores by rinsing them in alcohol or any substance that would remove the lube and dry fast. mineral spirits works well too.
after cores are cleaned they should be a drop fit into the jacket.
place sized and cleaned cores in jackets.
- place core seating dies and punches in the press and adjust for core seating.
apply a tiny amount of lube on the jackets.
run the jackets with the cores in the core seating die. this step will seat the core in the jacket properly.
it will expand the core against the jacket and will cause the jacket to widen up against the body of the die which is 455.
so after this stage you should have a straight walled copper tube with a lead core adhered with pressure to the copper which is expanded almost to the final diameter.
- next step is point forming. set up the point forming die in the press according to your calculated measurements and depth.
wipe a tiny amount of lube on the jacket ends (ogive) run the bullet in the point forming die.
this will squish and form the tip of the bullet and cause the lead to flow forward so if you did you math right you will end up with the lead moved forward to your calculated area on the bullet, in case of a lead nose it will flow forward beyond the length of the copper jacket, knowing the flat end of the bullet tip has a 0.205 meplat.
this die will also bring the bullet to the final diameter of 458
if you messed up you may end up with a copper tip and the lead is below the point of the bullet, well, depending what you are trying to achieve.
final step i take is placing a canulare at the calculated distance on the bullet so it can be seated and crimped to fit in a tubular magazine and clean any possible remaining lubricant off the bullet.
ok, so this is a rough explanation of the steps, there are small nuances such as the amount of pressure used to achieve cam over in each step etc' etc but this should give you a rough idea of the steps.



side note about jackets.... there are several options for jacket material. most common is using 22lr brass for making 6mm bullets and 224 bullets, i have also played around and made 458 bullets out of spent annealed 40 S&W brass. almost any caliber jacket can be made using used brass. seen guys make 30 cal bullets out of 50 bmg used primers and 338 jackets made out of 223 brass.
also can use specific copper tubing 0.035 wall thickens for making thick walled bullets which make great hunting rounds.
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Phishroy i'm impressed, slightly jealous and also happy that copper jacket bullet making is possible outside of industry. Do you think boat tail bullets with ogives is possible?
 
ALMAR said:
Phishroy i'm impressed, slightly jealous and also happy that copper jacket bullet making is possible outside of industry. Do you think boat tail bullets with ogives is possible?
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defiantly yes. there are many possibilities and options when it comes to swaged bullets.
it all depends on the tools and what you want to create. there are many ogives as well as VLD designs, boat tails as well as rebated boat tails.
the makers of these tools are not inventing the wheel but merely making the dies that the commercial bullet makers use available for home use.
there are also tools for making partition bullets and sub sonic bullets that will petal up on low velocity impact and the options and combinations are almost endless.
as a rule of thumb the more complicated the bullet design the more steps it will take to create it.
the amount of tooling that one can have is endless but it would depend on what you are trying to achieve.
for example: you can make 458 diameter rebated boat tail super long VLD or S12 ogive tipped dual core bullet if you have the proper tooling but this type of bullet would be a bit emmm.... impractical in my opinion.
unless you have some sort of special gun with a special use for such a long 458 boat tail pointy bullet.
such a long bullet will not fit in most chambers and not to mention the potential hazard of a pointy bullet in tubular magazines.
if you're looking at tooling up for something like long range precision target shooting, A bullet for something like a 308 than yes, defiantly, i would get the tooling for a long rebated boat tail VLD design.
so it boils down to what you are looking to create. the down side is that the tooling is very specific.
so a die for making a 30 caliber S12 ogive tip will not work for creating a tip for a 7mm bullet, it will only create an S12 ogive tip for 30 caliber bullets and nothing else.
some tools may be interchangeable such as the core swage die that brings the lead core to the desired final weight.
for example: a core swage die that is used for making lead cores for 224 bullets can also be used for making cores for 6mm bullets.
since the core dimensions of 224 and 6mm are not far off once the core is made to the proper weight, during the core seating operation the core will be squished to fit a 6mm jacket.
this applies to calibres that are close in size to one another however it will not work in reverse.
so a 6mm core will not fit in a 224 jacket and a core designed for 338 will not fit in a 30 cal jacket but a core that is designed to fit a 30 cal jacket will fit in a 338 cal jacket and can be expanded (widened )
to fit a 338 jacket.


for starting out if you want to just try out bullet swaging you can even get into swaging bullets with simple setups for reloading using a reloading press and brass reading dies and some annealed brass found at the range.
important note: brass must be annealed so its soft and use pure lead, wheel weights will be too hard and take measurements in each steps, use micrometer to double triple check diameter at end of process.

 
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brybenn said:
Is it possible to make a 350 gr 458 bullet with a jacket thick enough for hunting with a 458 wm and still get some expansion?
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Short answer is yes.
It would make a difference what your hunting.
Pretty much for any game in North America you will do just fine with the standard bullet jackets and a soft nose or exposed lead tip.
If you are hunting rhinos in Africa than you may consider a thicker jacket something along the lines of 40 thousand thickness.
if the target is hard enough or hit bone it will expand.
Otherwise if you have a really thick jacket on a really soft target without hitting bone or anything it may just pass thru.
And make a ½ inch hole on both sides.
 
Bear and moose. I use Remington bulk 405 gr fnsp now. They work but leave a massive hole. I'm throwing them quite a bit faster then they're designed for but they hold together quite well. However they seem hard to find at present and the Hornady 350 RN is even more rare
When I go to Africa ill load A frames and solids for cape buffalo
 
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