45-70 Cowboy loads for deer hunting

klaus enuff said:
Thanks everybody, pretty much how I feel too, I wouldn't be looking to make any shots much over 100 yards and within that range slow and heavy will be just fine.

It's funny though how some will insist that a "proper" hunting load is needed, as if a hardcast is a milsurp FMJ.
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That "is" a proper hunting load.... 1500 ft/lb at the muzzle, but momentum in spades.
 
I reload rem 405gr soft points to 1500 and 1550fps. Never had an animal run after being hit. Mind you all have been shot thru the neck and or shoulders at close range. About the only bullet i dont like in the 4570 is hornadys gummy tip. Its a fine deer bullet but thats it.
The 4570 is a great round. Im thinking about buying a henry single if i find one with nice wood just for playing. I currently use a sxs regulated for 405gr bullets which limits my fun but i sent hundreds of different loads down range for fun
Id have no prob using a slow cast bullet for deer
 
For now I will buy factory and save my brass, I have been doing a lot of reading about loading for the 45-70 and casting boolits in general. So many options of power, from mild to wild, I know it is not considered a true stopping round but that is in Africa, in North America I feel it can suit the role.
 
I have taken a lot of deer with that load, but with home cast bullets. I never had to trail a deer I shot with it. They all fell within sight. The area I was hunting then limited range to at most 85 yards. The majority were inside 50, many inside 50 feet. I went up to high velocity loads for a bit, but now if I'm using it, I use the lower power loads. It's not a magnum, and it doesn't need to be loaded like one.
 
Suther said:
And they hunted Buffalo from hundreds of yards away using volley fire... Sometimes just because it'll work doesn't mean it's a good option...

OP, it'll kill, assuming you can hit anything with the rainbow trajectory. I wouldn't use it though, there are much better 45-70 loads available and I'd be looking at using those hsm bear loads if you don't reload.
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It is a load that has killed things much larger, it is all about putting the bullet on target no matter the range.

The shooter needs to shoot at the range they intend to hunt at and know the drop, this is relevant with any cartridge, a 270 at 300 yards will miss the kill zone of a deer if sighted in at 200 yards and no hold over made, every round has this issue, the 45-70 cowboy round is not a 100 yard deer cartridge, it is much more than that.

Even modern 45-70 has a rainbow trajectory.
 
MRP said:
A non expanding .458 makes a bigger hole than most .308 expanding bullets. Poke em and eat em.
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Im sorry but no. Most expanding bullets are designed to expand to around 2x. In one test done by rifle shooter mag w/a 300wm at 50 and 400yds, testing 8 premium hunting bullets, minimum expansion at 50yds was 0.58 (swift a-frame) and at 400yds was 0.50 (Barnes ttsx). Obviously 0.50 isn't a whole lot more than 0.458, but this idea that a 458cal hole is bigger than an expanded 30cal is simply incorrect in most cases. Hell, the remington core lokt ultra bonded expanded to a ridiculous 0.92 and 0.79 at 50 and 400yds respectively, and the tsx was the only one under 0.55 at either range.

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammo/ballistics-test-best-300-win-mag-loads-market/
 
Ardent said:
It’s like playing hockey with a golf club but it’ll kill deer. A lot of far less interesting choices will make the deer hunting easier, but then again folks enjoy bow hunting too. If you like it, have fun it’ll work.



Contrary to popular perception quite the opposite, it will penetrate with little tissue disruption, and carries low amounts of energy. A .270 will be far more violent in terminal effect, even a .243 would make it look bad on deer. The deer will run flat out 50-150 yards and fall over most of the time with the hard / and or slow .45-70 load.
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It sure is, but some times things like that work out just fine. Happy hunting Op

Gilmore-847.jpg
 
Suther said:
Im sorry but no. Most expanding bullets are designed to expand to around 2x. In one test done by rifle shooter mag w/a 300wm at 50 and 400yds, testing 8 premium hunting bullets, minimum expansion at 50yds was 0.58 (swift a-frame) and at 400yds was 0.50 (Barnes ttsx). Obviously 0.50 isn't a whole lot more than 0.458, but this idea that a 458cal hole is bigger than an expanded 30cal is simply incorrect in most cases. Hell, the remington core lokt ultra bonded expanded to a ridiculous 0.92 and 0.79 at 50 and 400yds respectively, and the tsx was the only one under 0.55 at either range.

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammo/ballistics-test-best-300-win-mag-loads-market/
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Ok you are right. I'm off by two thousands of a inch.
 
There's no doubt that a .458 hole is decent enough, but expansion is based on the lead recipe. Bullets out of a 45-70 will expand (or not) depending on the mix and velocity. Let's not run on the premise that big bullets just don't expand.
 
MRP said:
Ok you are right. I'm off by two thousands of a inch.
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0.500 - 0.002 = 0.498. You're off by more than 4 tenths of an inch, and that's only if you're comparing to the smallest expansion. (0.500-0.458=0.042)

Now if you compare cross sectional area, 0.458cal =0.165 square inches, while 0.50cal =0.196, which is an 18.7% larger hole. If it expands to 0.60", you're up to 0.283 square inches, which is over 70% larger than a 0.458" hole.
 
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My one recovered 405gr remington bullet is wider than a twoonie. I havent measured it but it broke the hips and 8" of spine before going up thru the backstrap and breaking every rib and taking out the front shoulder and stopped against the hide on the chest. Bear dressed 218lbs after a finishing shot took out a massive section of her chest and off shoulder. You dont need ultra premium bullets in the 4570 you just need to put the bullet thru vital organs. In this case i missed the vitals on the first shot. Penetrated over 3' of bear but didnt kill it. She still growled quite convincingly and took off dragging herself extremely fast when i walked up on her. The 2nd shot was about 5' results were instantaneous
 
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