.45/70 data

[zimmineee]

I have some Hornady 350gr RN and H4198, and checked Hodgdon's online data for lever actions. They suggest a starting load of 48.5grs and go up to 54grs.
Is that a typo?? Because Hornday's manual shows 48grs as max

I took baby steps with my Guide Gun loads starting at 44.0 gr of H4198 using Hornady 350gr FP and worked up to 50.0gr. I will probably push a little bit further to 52.0 - 53.0gr and see how it looks.

 

[Brutus]

Then I dont even want to read his works. If he's one of these "magnum the 45/70 "guys, I class him a doof

Just got to know your equipments capabilities and limitations.
Lots of sound advise here, from others.

Level 1, Level 2, and Level 3, 45-70 action strengths and pressure limits.

No biggy.......

 

[Edward Teach]

You should contact Bob Mitchell at
13 Orchard Drive
RR # 1
Lindsay, ON
K9V 4R1

and ask him to send you his own manual on the 45-70. He probably knows more about the 45-70 than most people on the planet, including the "reloading manual writers". He gives an eye-opening account of his own personal research on the full potential of the 45-70 handloaded round for three guns in particular: the Ruger #1, the 1895 Marlin, and the NEF Handi-Rifle 45-70 single shot.

I won't be going back to my "store bought" manuals for my 45-70 Guide Gun. It's well worth the $20 he asks for it. I don't have a phone number but you can get it from 411 online.

Does anyone have an e-mail address for this fellow?

 

[H4831]

In the August, 2007 issue of Handloader magazine, are the results of very extensive testing of Marlin 45-70 rifles.
Brian Pearce lists loads in several pressure class ranges, starting with loads that do not exced 21,000 CUP.
In the loads that are shown as not to exceed 35,000 CUP, is the 350 Grain Hornady flat point.
A maximum of 52 grains of IMR 4198 is shown as 2196 fps.
All of the loads were tested in the 22 inch model 1895.
He has a section not to exceed 43,500 CUP, and these too, were all tested in the Marlin.
It doesn't show 4198 in this class, but H-322 and AAC-2015BR, do not give the 350 Hornady as much velocity, as the load shown above, 52 grains of IMR 4198.
However, with the 430 grain Oregon Trail True Shot, flat point, 54 grains of VV-N133 and 55 grains of AAC-2015BR, each give the heavy bullet over 2,000 fps and the load is shown in the "not to exceed 43,500 CUP and tested in the 22 inch Marlin.
Don't use these loadings based on what I have written, in case I made a typo.

 

[Edward Teach]

I have some 405 grain gas checked hard casts that I'm trying to work up loads for. The Lee book had 34.2 grains of IMR 4198 for a 405 grain bullet for a lever action...that's quite a ways from those numbers. I now have a feeling that by "lever action" they don't mean a new manufacture Marlin Guide Gun...
I tried another load from the card that comes with the classic Lee Loader...48 grains of H335, and they were quite a bit thumpier and they produced a pretty spectacular muzzle flash as well. I'm going to see what happens if I reduce that one a bit.
I've also made up a few more with the IMR for which I've increased the charge in .5 grain increments.
I also have some H322 to try.

 

[H4831]

Some more information on the loading data referred to in my previous post. Here is a copy of the loads not to exceed 28,000 CUP.
This chart, not to exceed 28,000 should be light, almost "girlie" loads. But look at the heavier bullets. 415 bullet, 45 of H4198, for a velocity of 1934 fps. And that was apparently less than 28,000 CUP!
I have loaded 42 grains of IMR4198 with a 420 grain gc, and was glad I had a Limbsaver pad on my 22 inch model!
Also notice they show 55 grains of H4895 with a 415 cast bullet for 1952 fps.
I have used 50 grains of the very similar IMR4895 with the 420 bullet, but not recommended unless all the fillings in your teeth are tight. I settled for 45 grains, which is very accurate, but by no means a baby load.

 

[leveractionjunkie]

I used this same article for some messing around with my 45/70's, it just shows what a versatile and handy cartridge the gov't is. The load I use for all my hunting is listed on the page h4831 posted up 46grs of 3031 under a remington 405gr SP still haven't ever recovered one. And to think I used to use the same bullet and powder with max charges, but it wasn't fun, and really not necessary.

 

[sbtennex]

Check out what Joe D did for his .45-70 workups on "realguns.com" in the articles section. Once you read the series of his articles you'll probably keep reading the rest - he knows what he's doing and decides to push the envelope a bit. However - even he has decided that pushing the big lever guns to their potential max might be a bit intimidating and potentially trouble based on the simple fact that the chamber wall thickness simply isn't there, even if 42000 psi has been judged (especially by the bunch at Hodgdon) to be a safe working level for the 1895. All the same, I adopted his heavy load for 3031 and have an absolute blast with it. The only sticky extraction I had was with the under-length Hornady once-fired LeverEvolution brass, and 57 or so grains of 3031 and a well crimped 350 gr RN solved that bit of geometry in one firing. Now that I actually have to trim to length, the pressure issues seem to have disappeared and I'm now pushing it again with H335. Accuracy here is elusive - the bullets aren't exactly designed for it, but flatten things they sure do well. Next up? 300 grain Barnes X's....AARRHH-AARRR-AAARRR! (quote: Tim Taylor)

 

[Edward Teach]

OK so I tried some more loads with the IMR, but I couldn't get them to group consistently. I also loaded some with 44 grains of H322 and was able to draw a picture of Mickey Mouse with 3 shots at 50 yds. That's a darn sight better...

 

[Brutus]

Next up? 300 grain Barnes X's....AARRHH-AARRR-AAARRR! (quote: Tim Taylor)

Be prepared for a dramatic POI change.

Cheers.......
By the way, 57 grains of IMR 3031, under a 350 copper jacketed, does sound like 'the brink' for a 45-70 modern lever gun.

 

[Danny Boy]

My hunting load for the Hornady 350 FP out of the Marlin 1895 is 48.6gr of H4198. The record shows that I got 2090 fps.

My friends at the club all got different speeds from a similar load. It is strongly advised that you use a chrono for 45/70 load development and play safe at all times.

 

[sbtennex]

X2. 42000psi is a lot of explosive expansion. If you look at the entire sum of all the locking parts of a lever gun it doesn't add up to a whole pile of steel holding that bolt where it belongs. Makes the feel of a 3 or more locking lug bolt gun feel pretty secure. Any of the "typical" signs of over pressure pretty well all mean you're already in risky country with a levergun. As posted earlier, the only measurable sign I've ever had was the odd sticky extraction, and that's cause for a lot of checking out carefully. Turned out to be the brass expansion was so extreme - short brass, Hornady once-fired. I have actually seen the classic cratered primer on my .444 and got away from that particular powder which fixed that. Now working with H335 and H4198 instead of the IMR3031. "It's all fun 'til somebody loses an eye" I seem to remember my mum as saying. How potentially true.