45-70 for hunting low vel'

phishroy

phishroy

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Hello.
Im looking for some advice on a hunting bullet for my 45-70 GG.
I consider myself a bit sensitive to recoil and im looking for a bullet that would open up nicely at the velocity of around 1400 fps and not just pass through, if there is such a performing bullet?
Does any one have any experience with the barns triple X bullets with such low velocity?
 
If you're recoil sensitive the 45-70 GG was likely not the best choice (not trying to be a ####) but that being said there are options.

Even before you think about loads, replace the stock "recoil" pad with a good aftermarket unit. The difference is night and day. The stock unit is anything but a recoil pad. Once you take it off you'll see, there is a very stiff reinforcing rib that runs vertically through the pad and it's not all that compliant to begin with.

Most of the factory loads for the 45-70 will be on the soft-side of recoil too, the 300 grain Winchester gives a good push but nothing extreme. Even the 405 factory loads weren't all that bad IMO.

Hope that helps.
 
pageophile said:
Most of the factory loads for the 45-70 will be on the soft-side of recoil too, the 300 grain Winchester gives a good push but nothing extreme. Even the 405 factory loads weren't all that bad IMO.

Hope that helps.
Click to expand...

thank you for the info but my quistion is if these bullets will open up once they hit a deer and not just make a big pass through hole?
 
I'd use a lead bullet at 1400 fps. All of the newer bullet designs are really just trying to get the expansion that lead exhibits at the lower velocities, without fragmenting.

Lead also has the characteristic of retaining it's weight. It stays together in a nice blob and gives extremely good penetration, as it is denser than any of the new uber-metal bullets.

A .45-70 plain lead bullet at 1400 fps should open up to 3/4 of an inch or more, and pass completely through, given what I've seen in muzzleloader kills. a .50 caliber lead ball, at about that velocity from a blackpowder rifle kills I've seen gives almost an inch patty, full penetration, or under the hide on the opposite side, with 95% weight retention, and stops deer stone dead
 
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I am going to work on them this summer to make sure but I am planning on using a 30-1 soft lead 340gr hollow point with 10.5gr of Unique and a federal mag primer in my 45-70. Software tells me it should be about 1100 fps.

I make 420 and 480gr loads to hunt dinosaurs with also, but I like playing on both extremes of this rifle. From what I have seen so far, they are accurate and I think on whitetail, they will do a good job. It's been a long time since I've shot one at more than 100 yards. I have about 8 or 10 Leverevolution shells left.. maybe I'll pack a couple in my shell holder just in case...

Ryan
 
Just curious about the the H&R 45/70...

what loads can it handle? 45/70 trap door? Govt?

Also can you shoot cast boolits with it? I dont know what the twist is on them....
 
phishroy said:
im looking for a bullet that would open up nicely at the velocity of around 1400 fps and not just pass through, if there is such a performing bullet?
Click to expand...

The 300 grain jacketed hollow-points from Winchester, Remington, Hornady, etc are all designed to expand at lower velocities. They will work well on deer when launched at very modest velocities.
 
The 340gr. Hollow pt. cast soft, would probably be your best bet if you want expansion at lower velocities, they have a large flat pt. and a wide, deep, hollowpoint.
 
thank you all very much for the info' i have some 405 grain lead bullets i got from the bullet barn in BC ill start working up a laod to have ready for deer season.
i dont want to drive them to fast also due to the fact that they are not gass checked as well.
 
When I started reloading lead, I was trying to shoot non gas check hard cast pretty fast, I have since slowed them down a lot. Though I still put gas checked heavy ones out at 1500 and 1700 with good results and get the 'non-scientifically empirical' feeling that they are the hammer of Thor.

When a 420gr hard cast flat point will go though a foot and a half of semi-wet fir stump... Just think what it would do to a front shoulder and vitals of something with teeth or horns.
 
phishroy said:
Hello.
Im looking for some advice on a hunting bullet for my 45-70 GG.
I consider myself a bit sensitive to recoil and im looking for a bullet that would open up nicely at the velocity of around 1400 fps and not just pass through, if there is such a performing bullet?
Does any one have any experience with the barns triple X bullets with such low velocity?
Click to expand...

I don't know what you plan to hunt and so my advice would be based off that.

Any factory rounds is more than enough for deer, (300hp 1600-1800fps), Reminton 405gr @ 1300fps (1100 actual fps) The rem 405 are very easy on the shoulder.

You don't need a .458 bullet to expand to kill well btw.

If you reload then a 405 Reminton or Speer 400gr bullet will open up slightly at 1400fps and plow threw elk and moose nicely. If I was you I would find a nice 405 harcast bullet that will break any bones it comes in contact with and would be a good choice for any NA game. Jae Bok Young makes great "Crater bullets" and Cast performace does too. Check them out.


To save you some time use H322 (most popular), Reloader 7, (H or Imr) 4198, Imr 3031. All are very good powders with the 45/70.

Cheers

Seabass
 
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phishroy said:
thank you all very much for the info' i have some 405 grain lead bullets i got from the bullet barn in BC ill start working up a laod to have ready for deer season.
i dont want to drive them to fast also due to the fact that they are not gass checked as well.
Click to expand...

Lois's bullets are of excellent quality but they are cast of a very hard alloy - Brinell Hardness Level 25 which is well above linotype - and will give you little if any expansion on a soft target like deer when launched at the speed you are interested in. (They are the cat's ass if you want to stick one through a moose lengthwise though! ;) )

As was mentioned if you plan on hunting with cast at modest speeds you will want a softer bullet and I would suggest a hollow point along the lines of the 330 grain Gould Bullet. (Lyman mould #457122 )
 
BTW, a 300gr Nosler at 1500-1600fps would be an awesome perfomer on game and light on your shoulder. The nosler out penitates many 400gr bullets due to its tough constuction yet will open up on light game and plow threw. They are expesnive but worth it. Use a 300gr reminton hp (very cheap) to use as practice and save the noslers for hunting. Just an another option.

Cheers

Seabass
 
You may want to give The Bullet Barn a try too.

I just tried some 405 grain cast boolits on top of 13 grains of Trail Boss in my GG and the recoil was negligible.
 
M.T. Chambers has a stellar rep for supplying cast bullets for these old calibers and is in Canada. Send a pm to Ben. He has already replied on page 1 and he will hook you up. I like the 350 to 420 grain cast flat points for casual shooting out of several 86 Winchesters. Accurate, easy on the shoulder (especially important in the light weight and carbine), easy on the barrel, and they follow the sights pretty well.

Either the Remington or Speer 400 grain jacketed bullets have fine reputations at modest velocities however when I'm using jacketed I usually shoot the Speer 350 grainers and have them loaded fairly hot (they do kick!).
 
I'll back up Ben, He's great and fast on casting and shipping and pretty much tells you to pay him when you get them, or when you try them.

He delivers a great bullet and my last shipment weighed 29 pounds and shipping was like 23 dollars.

Look up the information, see what MT Chambers can do before you start importing stuff from the states. I'll put the 420's or the 480gr WFN against Jai boks crater makers. They are large blunt chunks of hard lead. There are no super secret things to it if you are already doing it well.

I shoot the 480's at 1500 fps with 35gr of H4198 and the 420's at 1700 with 40 and I have no doubt they are the hammer of Thor. You could load each of them with 30gr of h4198 for 1300 fps and the recoil would be a lot less and the animal would have a hard time telling what happened.

Tomorrow afternoon I will try his 30-1 soft 340gr at 1100. It's probably going to my whitetail round this year. The recoil of loads like that are about the same as a .44 mag from a lever gun. Just beautiful. Barely anything there. But I am using Unique.

The 45-70 is a playground. Learn about it and have fun. My .457 RB mold is in the mail and I can't wait to try 3 ball loads.

I am on the quest for a quiet'ish 700 fps grouse load. Maybe the RB can help me.
Ryan
 
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