What are the factory loadings good for? Are they much more powerful than factory .30-30 or .44 magnum? Can the factory loads reliably stop a grizz if I do my part? Are the 300 grain loads any better than the 400 + grain loads at those power levels?
.45-70 for the non-handloader?
- Thread starter philthygeezer
- Start date
All the factory loads I've seen are lighter generally hollow point bullets.
300 grainers with light loads to accommodate the old army Springfields. They will probably still kill plenty.
I load 480grain flat points with 45.2 grains of RL7. I don't know what the velocity is, but they are plenty accurate.
300 grainers with light loads to accommodate the old army Springfields. They will probably still kill plenty.
I load 480grain flat points with 45.2 grains of RL7. I don't know what the velocity is, but they are plenty accurate.
Turkeyslayer 1300
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Russell, Ontario
If you are looking for top performance from the .45-70 you have to reload. If you are looking for a grizzly load without handloading you would probably be better off with a .450 Marlin or .375H&H.
To compare apples to apples, I went to the Hornady website and checked the ballistics on their loaded ammo. At the muzzle the 45/70 offers 3032 ft/lbs of energy where the 450 Marlin offers 3572 ft/lbs and at 100 yards the 45/70 offers 2158 ft/lbs vs 2569 ft/lbs for the 450 Marlin. Going out to 300 yards both cartridges still offer more than 1000 ft/lbs.
Not being an expert on Grizzly I would suggest either should kill one quite easily under 100 yards. We are talking over a ton of energy at 100 yards!!
For the record these loads are the LeveRevolution loads using 325 gr FTX bullets.
LeveRevolution rounds don't have a lot of penetration. Check out BearTooth Bullets for real bear defence. They are HOT loads and hard cast gas check bullets. None of that jacketed crap that will not make it into the CNS of a large brown bear.
For bear defence, you need penetration and no expansion. Bear tooth 525 grain bullets will go in one end and out the other of a grizzley. They'll also wallop through more than a couple of feet of wood. You want this ability because you may need to shoot something through brush.
http://www.beartoothbullets.com/field_performance/archive_field.htm/20
Flat points are the ONLY way to go for a defensive round because you can't have it deflected by brush on its way to target. You have 1 or MAYBE 2 shots you can get off before you're as good as dead.
Again, for a defensive round, velocity doesn't really matter. You need the inertia of a penetrating round to get the job done at short range.
For bear defence, you need penetration and no expansion. Bear tooth 525 grain bullets will go in one end and out the other of a grizzley. They'll also wallop through more than a couple of feet of wood. You want this ability because you may need to shoot something through brush.
http://www.beartoothbullets.com/field_performance/archive_field.htm/20
Flat points are the ONLY way to go for a defensive round because you can't have it deflected by brush on its way to target. You have 1 or MAYBE 2 shots you can get off before you're as good as dead.
Again, for a defensive round, velocity doesn't really matter. You need the inertia of a penetrating round to get the job done at short range.
BrotherRockeye
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Rural Saskatchewan
+1 thebigslide
I did a test with the LeveRevolution rounds and a thin piece of tin over a sheet of camoplast...expansion was dramatic...
I did a test with the LeveRevolution rounds and a thin piece of tin over a sheet of camoplast...expansion was dramatic...
Looking at the paper ballistics of the 45-70 cartridge loaded to Springfield Trapdoor specifications is not impressive.
However, a long time ago I learned that paper ballistics never killed a thing, and further more the animals can not read the ballistics, anyway.
A very long time ago my brother shot a big elk, with a 45-70, Springfield Trapdoor rifle, using a factory loaded 405 grain jacketed bullet.
He shot the elk at a 45 degree angle through the body and the bullet went clean through, killing the elk.
You are asking a theoretical question, because I doubt if there is a single sole on CGN who could answer your question from experience, which is, killing a grizzly with factory loaded rounds, in defence.
Long years ago, throughout the west, there were obviously oodles of grizzly bears dispatched with the 45-70 and low powered ammo.
Attacking grizzly bears have certainly been killed with a 30-30, so I can see no reason why factory loaded 45-70 rounds wouldn't be satisfactory, and far superior to a 30-30 class cartridge.
However, a long time ago I learned that paper ballistics never killed a thing, and further more the animals can not read the ballistics, anyway.
A very long time ago my brother shot a big elk, with a 45-70, Springfield Trapdoor rifle, using a factory loaded 405 grain jacketed bullet.
He shot the elk at a 45 degree angle through the body and the bullet went clean through, killing the elk.
You are asking a theoretical question, because I doubt if there is a single sole on CGN who could answer your question from experience, which is, killing a grizzly with factory loaded rounds, in defence.
Long years ago, throughout the west, there were obviously oodles of grizzly bears dispatched with the 45-70 and low powered ammo.
Attacking grizzly bears have certainly been killed with a 30-30, so I can see no reason why factory loaded 45-70 rounds wouldn't be satisfactory, and far superior to a 30-30 class cartridge.
- Location
- Calgary, AB
I sure would like to see a grizzly walk away from a 325gr Leverevolution round through the boiler room 
I'd like to hear about the performance of this ammo on actual game. Reason I ask is I have a Marlin .45-70 and several boxes of the ammo for it.
Anybody?
NAA.
I sure would like to see a grizzly walk away from a 325gr Leverevolution round through the boiler room
I'm looking at getting a stainless G2 Contender carbine in .45/70 and .22 LR, so the LeveRevolution ammo is out (T/C only recommends the lower pressure trapdoor loads).
No. I guess the .30-30 would be too soft and expansive in most loadings, even though energy seems similar. But what about the nosler partition bullets?
Glad to hear that the factory loadings are sufficient to drive through large, tough animals. Did the bullet break any bones on the way in? Seems like the factory .405 grains at ~1400 are my best option if harangued by a problem bear when I'm out hiking with a Contender.
Northman999
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Yukon
I shot and chronied some 300gr factory loads in my brother's Guide Gun and I wasn't impressed. 300gr @ 1800 fps; that's less than 2200 ft/lbs at the muzzle. And it kicked more than expected for such mediocre performance as well. The 45-70 really needs to be handloaded in order to live up to it's potential.
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
I own both the 30-30, and the 45-70, I've shot a lot of Ontario sized game with both.
If I were going to use one of the factory loadings on a big bear, without question I'd take the 45-70, with the 405 loading. This is from a guy who has taken moose with the 30-30.
The 45-70 405 kills out of all proportion to it's paper ballistics.
The above being said, I'd rather use a handloaded hotter version.
If I were going to use one of the factory loadings on a big bear, without question I'd take the 45-70, with the 405 loading. This is from a guy who has taken moose with the 30-30.
The 45-70 405 kills out of all proportion to it's paper ballistics.
The above being said, I'd rather use a handloaded hotter version.
