45-70 Govt.

dmstone

dmstone

Member
Rating - 100%
55   0   0
Location
Vancouver Island BC
I and starting work up a new load for my Marlin Guide Gun. 18.5 inch barrel.

Found lots of good info at http://www.realguns.com/loads/4570cast.htm and decided to go ahead and get set up for a:

-350 grain cast bullet (mine will be from the bullet barn not laser cast, though I have read they are similar in size and alloy)

-42 to 47 grains of reloader 7

-Max case length of 2.105 and COL of 2.525

-New Starline Brass and CCI LR primers

-Lee factory crimp die!

Supposed to get 1783-1986 fps from a 24 inch barrel.

Any advice/thoughts??? This will be my first rifle cartridge I'm handloading, reloaded a lot of pistol cartridges though.

Thoughts anyone, I will be using a Chrono to get my load dialled in before I try to get a scope set up later on.
 
Oh and in addition to the hard wax lug I'll be lobbing all my bullets with

"Liquid Dragon DRALOX"

As though the bullet barns bullets are supposed to be resistant to leading at high velocity I thought I would add the extra lub.... An Elmer Keith recommendation.
 
Everyone is going to tell you that it should be 1800 - ridiculous fps.

I shoot 405 cast bullets at 1400 fps and it will take down anything I shoot at. Remember, this is a black powder round originally and they could not get it beyond 1400 - 1500 fps. And it still knocked down buffalo.

It is a big bullet and likes to go slow and plow through whatever it hits. Very little meat damage and close counts.

BTW. I shoot both a C Sharps 1875 and an a Marlin 1895 GG. So I do know what I am talking about.
 
^ Agreed. tbrwlf, is exactly right. These Marlin actions are very strong and people tend to over-load them, as I have.

The important thing here; DON'T BLOW UP YOUR RIFLE!!

But also, bullets have design impact velocities. It's easy to exceed the design impact velocity with many bullets intended for the .45-70, especially in these Marlin rifles. I know because I've done it with 400gr Speers. I loaded those to 1850 fps and shot a big bear with that.
The Speer bullets blew all to pieces, just fragments left (although it killed the bear).
I was kinda pissed about this, but that was because I didn't know what I was doing. But I now understand that I was wrong, and was not loading the bullet to appropriate velocity. That bullet is probably fantastic at 1300-1500 fps impact velocity (give or take).

Since I did that, I have reduced all my 400-405 gr loads to 1600 fps MV. The bullets hold together way better, at those velocities! Today I have 400gr Hawk bullets, 405 Remington. I sold the Speers...

As to shooting 2000 fps + with the 350gr Hornadys, that velocity might be too high also. To be honest, I have not hunted with the .45-70 in a few years. I've been toying with the idea of pulling every .45-70 load I've got on the bench or I might just 'blow 'em all off', at the range...

I've been thinking about going back to square one with all my .45-70 loading. Just haven't got around to it...


FYI: These marlin Guide guns will produce teeth rattling recoil if you push them to the type velocities that I have; 1800 fps with 400 grain bullets is too high. I've hit 1900 fps... don't do it.

Likewise, I believe 2000 fps with those 350 grain bullets is too high.

FWIW, I have both an 1895GS and an 1895XLR.
 
Demonical,

Are you loading cast bullets.

From the research I have done Cast tend to hold together better with a hardness or 25 or better for deeper penetration, also aiming for shoulders.

I don't really plan on getting to the 2000 fps mark though I will play with 1700-1900. I saw a video of someone demoing some baffle bore and garrett cartridges with 350-540 or so grain bullets at 1550-2000 fps for various reasons. Penetration mostly with hard cast projectiles.

The garrett 420 gr is rated as going 1850 fps....
The garrett 350 gr is rated as going 2000 fps....

I have no intentions of making a round comparable to these but in my mind these could be considered maximum usable velocities?

Now I am most likely going to be shooting paper targets but I do want something that would cleanly take game as well.

Thanks everyone for your advice so far, I'm taking it all in!
 
I picked up an 1895GS quite a while ago. For load testing and to help compensate for eye sight that isn't quite as sharp as it used to be, I've mounted a Leupold 1x4, Vari X II on it. For quick access to the open sights, should the need arise, I used Weaver pivot mounts. Works fine but it would be more comfortable with a little more eye relief.

Marlin1895GS45-70.jpg


Some of my best accuracy with jacketed bullets has been using the Hornady 350gr FP, Speer 400gr FN and the Remington 405gr FP. With these two powders that have worked well are IMR 3031 and IMR 4198.

Here is an assortment of cast bullets I get from a friend locally.

45-70castbullets.jpg


I use these for my lighter load shooting and usually with either Trail Boss, Unique, 2400 and/or IMR 4227.
 
Heres a fun site for info.
http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

I use the 12 grains of IMR 700X behind a 500 grain cast lead bullet. Sends it at 1200+ fps and still doing around 800 fps at 1000 yards. Aim point for 500yds is 44 feet above target.
I cast and shoot 350 gr, 405 gr, 450 gr and 2 shapes of 500 gr.
Might want to check if the pistol powder your using can be used in the 45/70. I've used Unique, Win 231, IMR 700X. All in H&R Buffalo Classic and a Marlin 1895 CowBoy. Fun times.
 
You are on the right track with Re-7. It is a clean powder and works well out of my Guide Gun. I shoot 405gr cast (OMA) bullets with 42gr of Re-7. For the 350gr, 44gr of IMR3031 works well, but my GG likes the 405's better.

Another good site to find info on shooting cast bullets is:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com

Like others have said, you don't need to push the big cast bullets too fast - their performance on game is quite impressive and no meat damage.

Cheers.

James
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom