45-70 Hornady Leverevolution (Interesting read regarding RCBS)

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Bracen

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I'd shot a bunch of Hornady's Leverevolution 45-70 govt. The price seems really good on it and it seems to punch pretty holes out at 100 meters with the Williams peep sites that I installed on my Marlin 1895. I collect my brass and reload, I noticed Cabelas is one of the only people to sell the Hornady FTX, and at 33.00 a box of 50 it was not too badly priced. So I ordered 3 boxes. (Not too impressed that UPS just left it sitting on my front doorstep, but that's another story)

So I took the time and went to Hornady's web site and downloaded and printed off the spec's for the 325 gr. FTX. I de-prime, resize, debur the flashhole, tumble, clean all my brass, you all know! all the good stuff and fun stuff!

So here's where the problem starts. I measure the cases, well the cases are shorter than recommenced length. I read the printout from Hornady "Loading FTX bullets requires some specialized techniques in certain cases. To achieve a higher ballistic coefficient we had to lengthen the ogive, or nose, of the bullet. Sometimes this requires that the cartridge case to be trimmed shorter than the suggested .010" under SAAMI Max length than we recommend for conventional bullets." So no need to trim my brass any time soon.... or EVER! Not a big deal I figure, I may be worried if I was reloading them with something other than what they were designed for, but i'm not. I put my primers into my shells and get ready to load my powder and my bullets. Set my powder measure to drop 45.0 gr of H4198 and get ready to make five bullets for a test fire grouping with that load. I load my powder into my cartridge, set my bullet on top. pull the handle and seat my bullet.

HERE'S THE PROBLEM!!!

Can't crimp my bullet in. :(
The cartridge can't be pushed far enough into the die to reach the edge that performs the roll crimp. Don't crimp? It's in a tubular magazine! So not an option. I send RCBS an email and this is their reply;

Our 45-70 seat die will not crimp using Hornady’s “trim to” length. Hornady is recommending a trim length that is below SAAMI allowable specifications. Our dies are within SAAMI specs. We recommend that you contact Hornady for a resolution to this problem. Have a great day!

THANKS! Way to address the problem! Pass me off to Hornady! Maybe they can tell me how to grow the brass BACK to SAAMI spec so I can use your dies I bought.... I'm off to buy a set of Hornady dies! Anyone want an RCBS ones? Oh well. Just thought I'd share... and rant and rave!
:runaway:
 
Are you going to buy Hornady dies, before you know if they are any different? I would say, without doubt, they will also be built to SAAMI standards. After all, those are the standards the whole shooting industry work on. Everything is made to standard.
It is the leverevelution brass that is the problem, of course. It's just plain too short. I don't see why you fault RCBS.
 
I ran into the same problem, and being new to reloading I also was stumped. The length of the spent cases from the Leverevolution ammo is 2.030, and data found on Hornady's website suggests a case length of 2.040.

I shot an email off to Hornady asking if it was safe to load the shorter brass and they said all would be fine and to go ahead and load them up. I also told them I would be using the ammo in a Marlin 1895, and they never mentioned anything about having a crimping problem.
 
I use Hornady 45-70 dies and they are capable of crimping the shorter cases for the FTX. The Lee factory crimp die will not crimp the shorter cases you need for the FTX bullets.

BTW, I have found the 325 FTX to be a very "soft" bullet. (Used them to slaughter a beef) While I think they will be the cat's ass for soft-skinned animals like deer I would hesitate using them on really large animals.
 
Bracen said:
THANKS! Way to address the problem! Pass me off to Hornady!
Click to expand...

Why would you expect RCBC - or any other reloading company for that matter - to be responsible for Hornady's move to place a non-SAAMI product on the market?

That's like blaming GM for the poor gas mileage you get in your Dodge. ;)
 
I'm not really blaming RCBS. I know everything in the industry is set on SAAMI specs. I'm just on the frustrated side. All I wanted to do was hand make a load for my rifle and I'm thwarted by "the man"... lol

I know lee makes a dedicated "crimping die" for the 45-70 I'm tempted to order one. I may just bite the bullet (no pun intended) and send the seating/crimping die to a machine shop and have them put it in a lathe and take .060" off the end. Problem is it'll cost me more than buying a new die set!
 
Bracen said:
I know lee makes a dedicated "crimping die" for the 45-70 I'm tempted to order one.
Click to expand...

Read my first post about the LEE crimp die. It doesn't work on the shorter cases either.

One of your options is to get a machinist to trim back the length of your RCBS seating die.
 
I did pick up a set of Hornady dies. I will say... "They looka a REAL REAL nice!"

Nice high quality looking dies, not to mention they come with an alan key and an extra decapping pin in case you break yours. Nice extras. I'm excited to see how they work!
 
why not just grind the crimp die till it works for ya. it is only .010" if you want it to look nice tanke it to your gunsmith or machine shop and have em turn off .060"
 
My problem is I'm a little OCD when in comes to my stuff. So the grinder wasn't really an option! Everything has to be clean, organized and match... LOL! My reloading stuff sits in Several Plano Plastic Work boxes and everything is neatly organized inside with other Plano plastic "fishing" box containers and everything is labeled... My girlfriend just rolls her eyes! But when I need something it's there and it's always clean!

Just spent a couple hours loading up some 45-70 rounds using my new Hornady dies. These dies are pretty sweet. They do a great seating and crimp job!

Just for the record I've ALWAYS been a huge RCBS fan. Maybe that's why I was disappointed with their answer when I emailed them. I understand it's not RCBS's fault that Hornady decided to make these new rounds under SAAMI spec. I just thought they might have a better answer than "Consult Hornady".
 
Wish That I Had Read This First!

Bracen said:
My problem is I'm a little OCD when in comes to my stuff. So the grinder wasn't really an option! Everything has to be clean, organized and match... LOL! My reloading stuff sits in Several Plano Plastic Work boxes and everything is neatly organized inside with other Plano plastic "fishing" box containers and everything is labeled... My girlfriend just rolls her eyes! But when I need something it's there and it's always clean!

Just spent a couple hours loading up some 45-70 rounds using my new Hornady dies. These dies are pretty sweet. They do a great seating and crimp job!

Just for the record I've ALWAYS been a huge RCBS fan. Maybe that's why I was disappointed with their answer when I emailed them. I understand it's not RCBS's fault that Hornady decided to make these new rounds under SAAMI spec. I just thought they might have a better answer than "Consult Hornady".
Click to expand...

Finally got some bullet’s cast and was about to load some nice mild stuff to play with. I also picked up a set of Lee 45-70 dies. Am having a little trouble getting 45-70 brass so I picked up a box of Leverevelution to bang off and save the brass to use for reloads. First mistake! Leverevelution brass is shorter than stock brass. Lee expander plug won’t expand enough to go over the oversized .460 lead bullets. After just three attempts I switched to jacketed bullets that seated OK. Then went to crimp. Tried to use the new factory crimp die. They crimp location is via the length of the case. I was crimping just in front of the case on the bullet. Went back to the role crimp. Lee,s finely machined dies will not allow you to excessively over crimp. They also wouldn’t allow a shorter case to crimp. Eventually I pulled the de priming pin and used the resizing die as a modified tapered crimp “thingy a ma jiggy” (technical term) Everything would have worked fine if I just had the right length brass!
Seems Leverevelution stuff doesn’t want to be reloaded. I will save the short brass for jacketed bullets and use my starline brass for the lead ones.
 
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