I bought a new 45-70 today along with some 405 grain remington sp ammo,and this ammo can only seem to penetrate about half of what I can do with hard cast in a hot load in my 45 colt levergun!!!.I was only shooting into 2x4's but this load only shot through 4 damned 2x4's!!!Not very impressive for a supposedly bear defense gun.Must be loaded very light and did not have noticeable recoil.
45-70 hunting load.
- Thread starter machinistbutler
- Start date
The lead separated from the jacket as well,the lead seems very soft in this bullet.It did expand about 25% bigger than the original size.I bought 200 bullets ,405 gr sp,which I have read some good things about.I was not able to find a danged shellholder for it ,went to wholesale,p&d and lock and load today and they had none.I dealt with Don at wholesale and he was great,very nice and helpful and courteous!
- Location
- Vancouver Island BC
45-70 loads
Try a 420 grain cast bullet over 40 grains of H4198. I have a contact for a guy who does some really good gas checked cast bullets for the 45-70. His prices are very good at 10 cents apiece and then shipping on top. I'm sure he would send a few to let you try them before buying a bunch.
Try a 420 grain cast bullet over 40 grains of H4198. I have a contact for a guy who does some really good gas checked cast bullets for the 45-70. His prices are very good at 10 cents apiece and then shipping on top. I'm sure he would send a few to let you try them before buying a bunch.
Any hardcast bullet of 400 grs. or more should provide better penetration and exp. as long as the dia. is right to begin with. The Remington 405 gr. bullets actually hold together better than the Speer 400 gr. Your Factory load was probably going 1300fps, equiv. to the old BP loads. M T Chambers offers 8 diff. bullets for the 45/70 including the 480gr.WFN GC hard cast (a real thumper). At 1800+fps you probably don't have enough plywood.
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
Hard cast, I shot end to end through a whitetail doe at two feet off the muzzle.
She went "unh" and was dead.
Hard cast really works. You don't need expansion when the entrance hole is .458.
She went "unh" and was dead.
Hard cast really works. You don't need expansion when the entrance hole is .458.
I did a penetration test with hard cast bullets 20 years ago - used 40gr of old XL44(3031 equivalent) powder and Lyman 457102 460gr. It penetrated 27" through a cedar shake bolt.
It probably isn't much advantage using hard cast as my rifle gives noticeably better accuracy with 20:1 and the same loads. I think even that alloy would give ample penetration.
It probably isn't much advantage using hard cast as my rifle gives noticeably better accuracy with 20:1 and the same loads. I think even that alloy would give ample penetration.
"...equiv. to the old BP loads..." Exactly. Due to the large numbers of Trapdoor Springfields around, Stateside, nearly all factory ammo is loaded down. The .45-70 can be loaded to near .458Win velocities, but those loads are not for lever actions. The load you use will depend on what rifle you have.
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
The penetration capability of a hard cast bullet is similar to that of a FMJ and will easily out penetrate a SP jacketed. A flat nose or semi wadcutter design will impart a little more shock and slightly less penetration than a round nose.
The reason for SP jacketed bullets is to deform, increase the knock down power and impart more tissue damage and as a result the degree of penetration is decreased.
What do you have for a .45-70? Factory .45-70 ammo is usually loaded down to compensate for some of the older or poorer quality firearms out there. A couple of examples like the new 1895 Marlins or the Ruger # 1's have significantly increased the potential of the cartridge. To realize that potential, hand loading is almost a must.
I use a 1895 Marin GS and have had good accuracy results with the Hornady 350gr FP and slightly better results with the Speer 400gr FLAT-SP, using IMR 3031 in both. I have yet to do some testing using IMR 4198. It's supposed to work well.
In cast, the 420gr GC 303carbine made mention of works well and the guy we get them from also has two other weights with the same profile, a 325gr GC & a 525gr GC, all of which function well through the lever action.
The reason for SP jacketed bullets is to deform, increase the knock down power and impart more tissue damage and as a result the degree of penetration is decreased.
What do you have for a .45-70? Factory .45-70 ammo is usually loaded down to compensate for some of the older or poorer quality firearms out there. A couple of examples like the new 1895 Marlins or the Ruger # 1's have significantly increased the potential of the cartridge. To realize that potential, hand loading is almost a must.
I use a 1895 Marin GS and have had good accuracy results with the Hornady 350gr FP and slightly better results with the Speer 400gr FLAT-SP, using IMR 3031 in both. I have yet to do some testing using IMR 4198. It's supposed to work well.
In cast, the 420gr GC 303carbine made mention of works well and the guy we get them from also has two other weights with the same profile, a 325gr GC & a 525gr GC, all of which function well through the lever action.
- Location
- Langley, BC.
This is my pet load for my XLR. I found that the level of crimp played a big part in accuracy. I can now consistantly turn 1" groups @ 100 yards w/ it, using a peep sight on the back and a sand bag under the forestock.
On my first reloads, I would crimp as hard as I could without having the case deform. these loads would 'string' out to 2.5". Then I played w/ the powder charges and got the string down to 1.5". Then I played w/ the amount of crimp and started getting groups, instead of strings.
The end 'science' project is;
WW case
CCI primers
54gr. IMR 3031
Speer 400 FLSP.
I haven't tried any other bullets, I quite like what I've got. I have seen bullets recovered from game. Including one that travelled the full lenght of a BIG Bear that busted bone in the front and hind sections, that held together. I should see this spring how it does...
I bought a lyman shell holder kit from p&d today and loaded some 405 rem sp up as well as some hard cast 405's from the bullet barn.A charge of 3031 of 51 grains and I will see what she will do.I think I was in a sour mood not finding a shell holder.The rifle is the marlin 1895,22" barrel.Looking forward to tomorrow!!!
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
That's a fairly stout load. Hope you have Tylenol with you.
- Location
- AB foothills
John Y Cannuck said:That's a fairly stout load. Hope you have Tylenol with you.
53g of 3031 out of a 22" Marlin:
- Location
- Langley, BC.
crazy_davey said:53g of 3031 out of a 22" Marlin:
THAT'S what I'm talk'n about!
- Location
- AB foothills
405g Remington JSP.
Man, I need some new pics
Man, I need some new pics
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
Nice group. Very nice!! Looks better than my group. I'm using the same basic load, but with the Speer 400gr Flat-SP. I'll have to get some of those 405gr Remingtons to try. Again, nice shooting.crazy_davey said:53g of 3031 out of a 22" Marlin:
- Location
- AB foothills
Thanks. Out of all the bullets I have used these have been the most accurate in my rifle. I guess I should mention I am using a Leupold 1-4 Vari-x II . But my Guide gun shoots quite good with open sights as well but not as good as the above target of course.
. But my Guide gun shoots quite good with open sights as well but not as good as the above target of course.
- Location
- Langley, BC.
Six of one,,,,, half doz of the other.
The last couple of times out @ the range, I was hitting clay pigoens (just for kicks) out @ the 200 backstop. These targets represent the shot's fired to dial the gun back for a 100 meter zero, for hunting. Keep in mind, that the gun has open sights and the holes were punched w/ Speer 400 FN's.
This target kept being rotated after shooting/sight adjustments;
And the final;
After seeing davey's paper, I would like to try out them remmies... I have heard from several shooters that they weren't all that accurate. Go figure???
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
Got the same scope on my Guide Gun. It comes in handy, especially for testing loads as the eyes aren't quite what they 'used to be'.crazy_davey said:Thanks. Out of all the bullets I have used these have been the most accurate in my rifle. I guess I should mention I am using a Leupold 1-4 Vari-x II
I've used a set of Weaver pivot mounts so the open sights are still available if needed.
