45-70 imr 3031 Max powder charges?

hansol

hansol

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Hey guys,

I just bought a Marlin guide gun, and want to make up some reloads for it using imr 3031 powder and hornady 350gr bullets. (I wanted 400s, but apparently there are none in the entire city). Because these will be for bear loads, I want to load them pretty heavy.

That being said, the IMR powder website gives the following data (specified for lever rifles):

350 GR. HDY JRN bullet, IMR 3031 powder.
Starting load = 56.5 2022fps 31,400 CUP
Max Load = 60.0C 2135fps 37,100 CUP

On the other hand, it seems a lot of other data specifies 56 grains as a max load, which happens to be the IMR data's starting load. I know a lot of reloading manuals are conservative though, as they seem paranoid of a levergun/falling block load being loaded in a trapdoor...

Has anyone here loaded charges of 56-ish grains of imr 3031 in their marlin rifles? Any problems?
 
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The info I have also states that 56.8 3031 is max with a vel. of approx 2065 fps. If I was you I would work the most accurate load weather it was max or not. If I have a bear coming at me I want to know I am going to hit it. My loads with the 350 hornady is about 3 or 4 gr less than max but my loads with JB Youngs 420gr crater lites is a max load but both are very accurate and I am nery confident that the bullet is going were I aim. Just my 2 bits worth.
 
I run 57.0 grs 3031 in the GG and 58.0 in the XLR, same bullet as yours. Different rifles. Any more than that the odd one gets a bit sticky on extraction. Cases are pretty well full by then anyway. H335 seems to be a bit more accurate at the same speeds and seems more consistent at lower pressure....but 3031 works just fine.
 
Work up a load that is accurate and extracts smoothly with no pressure signs. Some hunts have been ruined by a stuck case.

As for a bear hunt, I think 100% reliablity is the key. The "MAX" in the book is their rifle, not yours.

I start at the Start load and shoot 5 shot groups in 0.5 gr increments and look for the load that got the best group, and make sure I shoot a grup or two at a hotter laod to make sure I am not at the limit. Otherwise a hot day could be a disaster.

Read below....
 
Well that's what I'm getting at. Hodgdon/IMR have published that 56 grains is a starting load, and 60 grains is a max load. Thusly, I loaded at 56 grains.

Elsewhere, guys are saying 56 grains is the max load. Makes for a bit of a tricky situation.
 
Hey wade, thanks for the info. These loads will be used for guiding, not plinking or general shooting, so hopefully I won't be using too many of them.
 
I don't know if IMR is now publishing re-calculated data. but I know that their testing protocols were so deficient that the published data was eratic. The company was run by chemists - not a shooter in the joint.

When I frst started working with them they looked at me blankly when I mentioned a powder thrower. I asked to see the loading room. They had a soup bowl to hold the powder, a digital scales, a teaspoon and a funnel. No powder thrower - never heard of one. They did not even have a loading block. The had a piece of 2x4 with 5 holes drilled in it.

No, don't use their data unless it is new from the new management.
 
I have shot several boxes of Speer 350 grainers over 53 grains 3031 out of a Browning 1886 carbine with no problems. Ken Waters' pet loads listed this as his preferred 'heavy" load using Hornady 350 grain bullets in modern lever guns, such as the Marlin and Brownings. The only Speer bullet that I have recovered was from a moose shot @ 40 yards that was quartering towards me. It went through the near shoulder, chest and lodged under the hide on far side. The bullet nose was torn up some but mostly intact. My thoughts now are to either use the Nosler 300 grain partition (if looking for jacketed bullet and expansion) or a cast bullet with wide flat nose (metplat). My preference is the cast bullet as they are fairly cheap, easy on barrels, and I get dependable performance without trying for top velocities. I have an old Winchester .45-70 bullet mould and a friend casts some bullets for me from it. It is amazing how effect and fun they are.

I also really like IMR 3031 powder as I load and shoot quite a few older Winchesters. It has given me very good results in the .30, .32, .33, 38-55, and .45-70. For my .348 I switch to something slower (IMR 4350 or Reloader 15) and my little rounds either use unique (.44) or 4198 (.25-20). I'm not much of an experimenter and as life gets more complicated I seem to gravitate to the simpler things that work.
 
As an aside, after stuffing 56 grains of powder into the case, it seems like this is a bit of a compressed load. Is this safe/normal? I know a guy can compress black powder no problem, but what about smokeless?
 
Hodgdon has the hottest loads for the Marlin 1895 action. They go up to 40,000 cup. Other manuals hold back and of course there are three different 45/70 levels.

1) Trapdoor, old weak firearms. (Factory ammo, 28,000cup)

2) Marlin, Lever actions, rated as 40,000cup, max

3) Single shot rugers and bolt actions. Rated at 50,000 cup max.

I have used hot loads (marlin, lever action 40,000cup) for years without an issue in my 1895. Go with it and have fun.

Follow the advice already stated and find an accuacte load in your firearm.

Remember 45/70 cases vary quite a bit so be very careful when changing any compenets. IE, Remington brass is 4.1 grains less capaicty than Winchester so the same amount of powder in a max load could be very bad. Stay safe.

Cheers

Seabass
 
Thanks for the advice Seabass. I am actually using remington nickle plated brass (thanks to the knuckleheads at wholesale giving me that instead of the winchester brass that I asked for), so that is good to know. Do you figure I should pull the bullets and start over?

Why Not I will definitely try that load out. I looked all over town for 400 grain bullets, and nobody has any in. In fact, even finding the 350 grains was a chore. I think I am going to have to get into not only casting my rediculous shotgun slugs, but a few hardcast 45-70 bullets as well.
 
I don't have the article with Brian Piearce but here a link to 45/70 brass capacity. Worth looking at. http://www.levergunlovers.com/viewtopic.php?f=81&t=944

Hodgdon who owns IMR uses CCI 200 primers and Win brass for their 45/70 loads, so your Remingotn nickel brass with a max load could very well over pressure and unsafe. Meassure your brass capacity out yourself and see what it is to be sure.

Cheers

Seabass
 
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wapitiwhacker said:
I don't think the shortage of jacketed 405s is just a local thing either. The guy I buy my stuff from says they are very difficult to find. Ended up buying 405 hardcast to play with.
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Hard cast 385-415 gr bullets are about as good a game load as you can get, and that 50 gr of 3031 is very accurate with them in my Marlin with Ballard rifling. Sight in two inches high at 100, go hunting, hold dead on out to 200 yds, and get the knife out! :D

Ted
 
Why not? said:
Hard cast 385-415 gr bullets are about as good a game load as you can get, and that 50 gr of 3031 is very accurate with them in my Marlin with Ballard rifling. Sight in two inches high at 100, go hunting, hold dead on out to 200 yds, and get the knife out! :D

Ted
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Mine likes 51 1/2 3031 with the 405 Rem. Not a hunting load but near benchrest accuracy. Well inch or slightly less, with scope. Now without its more like 2-3"ish.
 
Seabass said:
I don't have the article with Brian Piearce but here a link to 45/70 brass capacity. Worth looking at. http://www.levergunlovers.com/viewtopic.php?f=81&t=944

Hodgdon who owns IMR uses CCI 200 primers and Win brass for their 45/70 loads, so your Remingotn nickel brass with a max load could very well over pressure and unsafe. Meassure your brass capacity out yourself and see what it is to be sure.

Cheers

Seabass
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And I have remington brass with federal primers and a compressed load... :redface:

Looks like I'll be pulling 50 rounds of 45-70 tonight lol.
 
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