45-70 load for 400 gr bullets

MaxKW

MaxKW

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I have a box of 400 gr Barnes originals and a full pound of RL 7, my barnes book only has a load for the ruger with this powder, anyone have a pet load or any suggestions, I guess I could just start with the minimum load for the ruger but I like to do things by the book.

Rifle is a Marlin guide gun.
 
If you are looking for top end loads, I can quote 45/70 guru B. Mitchel,from his journal....56 grains RL-7 for 2038fps. 42,000 cup. and you can load down from there......I have used 47grs. with a 405gr. cast bullet with good results...the 56 gr. load is to be considered max. and it produces pressure similar to .450 Marlin in the same gun. Not for use in any other rifles than Marlin '95 or Ruger #1!!
 
These loads are outside of the Litigation wary powder and bullet companies that are concerned about people using heavy loads in old trapdoor springfields or rolling blocks, etc. All I will say is that the loads quoted are of the same pressure as other cartridges in the Marlin '95. ie: .450 Marlin.
Note also that recoil becomes a factor at anywhere near these top end loads.
 
MaxKW said:
Wow 56 grs is alot higher than I thought, Barnes max load is 48 grs for 1862 fps for the Ruger #1.
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X2. The Barnes manual doesn't list an RL7 load for the .45-70 (1895 Marlin). I've never used the 400gr Barnes but have had good results with the 400gr Speer Flat-SP using IMR 3031. The Speer manual has an RL7 maximum load of 49grs of RL7 for their 400gr bullet. 56grs does sound high.
 
Loading the Marlin up to the maximum can be tricky. There are normaly 3 differnt levels for the 45-70. #1 Trap door, #2 Marlin, #3Ruger. This part is straight forward, get a loading manual and follow the Marlin loads. The tricky part is that many handloaders load the MODREN Marlin to a level between the normal Marlin listing and the ruger listing. So infact ther are actualy 4 differnet loading levels.

Marlin only recomends the 35,000cup loads for the 45-70 HOWEVER is is common practice to load the Marlin up to 43,000psi. This is equal pressure and preformance to the 450 Marlin.

If you are going to hot rod the 45-70 in the Marlin you realy need a cronograph. Normal signs of high pressure will not show up at 43,000psi, there realy is no good way to let you know that you have gone to far. The crony is the only way.

I load the 350g Hornady out of my Guide gun with h4198 to a velocity of 1900fps. I have used R7 and 400g bullets but cannot remember the loads and safe velocitys off the top of my head.

Be carfull following someones loads on the internet, I have found a BIG difference in case capacity between Remington and Winchester brass, if you were to use a powder charge that was safe with the Winchester brass you would be over the pressure limit with the Remigton brass due to it's smaller capacity.
 
Republic of Alberta seems to have a good handle on top end loads in the Marlin 45/70, just a few things to add....if the .450 Marlin and the 45/70 are loaded to equal pressures the 45/70 will have more vel./energy/TKO. I won't reveal loads tested this past weekend using W-W cases and AA-2015(heaps of it), driving 480 gr. WFN GC(hard cast) to 1923fps, have I mentioned recoil yet, can't remember, my mind goes fuzzy since in a while since shooting them!
 
I have to agree with blindsided on this one.....

Barnes X bullets work with different pressures than conventional style bullets.

So always follow safe reloading practicing and start with reduced loads of about 10% less then the suggested max loads.
 
Cast bullets are different too. Easier to engrave, so they'll typically run lower pressures (or higher velocities).

Don't worry about the recoil, a 405 at 2050 is a pussycat ;)

Actually, the best way to reduce recoil is to shoot lighter bullets. By the time the recoil from a 400gr load becomes 'reasonable' it's going too slow to be real useful - 1500-1600 is easily tolerable, but not really packing that much energy and not too flat. I like loading 405's to ~1950, and shooting 350's for the 'lighter recoil' loads also at about 1950 fps. That way I have two loads that shoot to nearly the same POI and nearly the same trajectory; just one's easier on the shooter. But, with a little practise you won't notice the recoil so much from the 'big boy' loads
 
The heavy loads quoted earlier were tested by Accurate arms for Journal author B. Mitchell and used the 400gr. Barnes original bullet(jacketed lead) and they of course would not endorse them even though they fell within the pressure range of the .450 Marlin in the same rifle(new '95). This is std. for all companies as they don't want a law suit if someone uses that ammo in a trapdoor Springfield or other old weak actioned gun. Our testing with heavy loads and AA2015 show no sticky extraction, in fact just the opposite!!
 
marlinman said:
So as long as the fired case extracts smoothly, you are safe.
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This is 100% wrong. The maximum operating pressure for a Marlin is around 43,000psi. It can easily be said that (depending on the case and hardness of the brass) brass does not seriously yield untill well over 43,000 psi.

You could easily have 50,000psi or even 60,000psi and still have perfect extraction if the brass does not seriously yield.
 
Yup....I would go so far as to say that if you're having sticky extraction in a Marlin '95 in 45/70, there may be some other problem,(dirty chamber, lever binding slightly on new gun,etc.) none of our testing with very heavy loads in the Marlin or Ruger #1 resulted in sticky extraction!
 
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