45-70 load question

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super7

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I have a marlin 1895 that I'm reloading for. I have some 500grn lead bullets that I want to try. My reloading manual has no loads listed for 500grn bullets in a marlin 1895. It does however have a load listed for a 1873 springfield. Its as follows:
imr4198 - start 28.5, max 31.5.... OAL 2.835"
The OAL for the springfield is 2.835" whereas I need 2.55" for the marlin. This would be a light load for the marlin if the OAL was the same. Since I have to change the OAL, how much of a difference will it make to the pressure? Will it still be a safe load to use in the marlin with the OAL shortened to 2.55?

(max CUP for 1873 springfield is listed at 18,000.....max for 1895 marlin is 28,000. I have no idea how much the pressure will spike by changing the OAL of this load)
 
You will likely have a problem crimping the 500 grain bullet at the right OAL. If you single feed into the chamber you don't need a crimp but if you use the tube mag those big 500's will likely move under recoil with no crimp. Not likely changing the OAL on that Springfield load will give any more pressure. I don't put anything heavier than 405's in my Marlin. If you want to you need to find a 500 gr bullet with a forward crimp groove made for the Marlin OAL. If you seat that bullet long and then load it and decide you don't want to fire it , It might not eject from your gun!!
 
Maximum weight listed in my Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook for the 1895 Marlin is 420 gr. LRNFP.

It does list a 464 gr. LRN bullet for the Ruger #1 & #3 but OAL is 2.878". Not much help either as it is a higher pressure plus longer load.

And from Hodgdon.com:

45-70 Government (Trapdoor Rifles)*
Code: 
485 GR. CAST LFP

IMR 4198 OAL 2.540"
Start	30.5	1364	17,500 CUP
Max	32.5	1439	21,600 CUP

I don't know what this LFP bullet is but the weight is very close, OAL is OK, and it is a load for a weaker action than the 1895 Marlin.

What is your source of these 500 gr. bullets? Would they have some data for it in the 45-70?

Will you be able to crimp at an OAL of 2.55"?

Can you post a picture of them?


Fudd
 
459550WFNGC.jpg


45-70 cal. .459 dia. 550 gr. WFNGC "CraterTM" Heavyweight
Recommended for use only in New Marlin 1895.

ht tp://www.competitor-pistol.com/459500WFNGC.html

ht tp://www.competitor-pistol.com/jb%20bullets.html
 
Don't worry about those pressures in your modern Marlin, they are probably well under half the pressure your rifle is designed for.
As someone said, it is just the crimping. With those light loads there is lots of room in the case for seating the bullet. Just put a bullet beside the case at about 2.5 inches, and see if there is a groove nearby for crimping. If not, maybe just crimping on the lead alloy bullet would be sufficient to hold it. They are light loads you're talking about, so it may hold on just the bulet. On the other hand, if a bullet comes well out in the magazine, you may have a heck of a time getting the cartridge out.
Best to crimp in a proper groove, and shoot it single shot.
The bottom line is you have everythng there to try. Tell us what worked for you.
 
The original Lyman handbook of Cast Bullets, list eight different powder types, for the 45-70 and a 500 grain bullet.
4198 is shown as 27 grains for 1,200 fps.
4198 " " 34 grains (max) for 1,500 fps.
 
Just in case you care. Around 460 grains of bullet in the 45/70 the performance begins to cancel, like the bullet starts taking up too much powder space. Especially when they need to be seated deep so they will cycle through a Marlin. Don't let this stop you from rattling your teeth with the big 500's though. You wont need to floss for a week!
 
Scar270 said:
It seems to me a Lee Factory Crimp Die would get around the crimping groove problem, as you can crimp where ever you like.
Click to expand...

I have used the Lee factory crimp die on cast, 45-70 bullets. I don't think it lives up to the hype given it. I can get a crimp into the bullet, with no groove, better with a standard seating/crimping die, in the 45-70.
In a bottle neck case, doing this with a standard seating die, would bulge the shoulder, so would not work.
 
super7 said:
I have a marlin 1895 that I'm reloading for. I have some 500grn lead bullets that I want to try. My reloading manual has no loads listed for 500grn bullets in a marlin 1895. It does however have a load listed for a 1873 springfield. Its as follows:
imr4198 - start 28.5, max 31.5.... OAL 2.835"
The OAL for the springfield is 2.835" whereas I need 2.55" for the marlin. This would be a light load for the marlin if the OAL was the same. Since I have to change the OAL, how much of a difference will it make to the pressure? Will it still be a safe load to use in the marlin with the OAL shortened to 2.55?

(max CUP for 1873 springfield is listed at 18,000.....max for 1895 marlin is 28,000. I have no idea how much the pressure will spike by changing the OAL of this load)
Click to expand...

I'd agree with advice already given. Jae Bok Young's 'Crate lite' bullets in either 420 or 550gr are great high quality bullets. I've fired a lot of them over the years and they are both accurate and deadly on game. Plus the 550grain bullets have a crimp grove in the right place to cycle in your marlin. Buy some, you'll like them.. Warning, make sure you wear steel toe boots when loading them, they're heavy and they hurt if you drop them on your toes!!:D

The Lee Factory crimp is a good tool. It's worked for me.

And your modern Marlin 1895 reciver is rated for 40,000cup to 43,000cup (450 Marlin). Over the years I've personally fired thousands of pressure tested ,41,000 cup (max loads) out of my 1895G with no issues. Its just some reloading manuels are more conserative than others. Look up Hodgdon's website, plenty of loads there.

Good luck and Merry Christmas
 
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