45/70 load using 405 gr. cast & H322 (please)

[Art]

Hello. I need to know of a safe starting and maximum load using The Bullet Barns 405 grain cast flat nose, triple lube grooved with gas check bullets. The powder I will be using is H322 as I already have 2 pounds of the stuff. Can't seem to find any published loads for the 405 cast bullets with H322. Any assistance would be appreciated. Oh ya, it is for a Marlin Guide Gun. Thanks

 

[stocker]

Hodgdon's web site shows 50 start, 55 max for use with 400 grain jacketed. No reference to cast bullet use but the starting load should be safe enough with a 405 cast. That will have significant recoil so if you want a lighter load do some research on the powder and see how it adapts to loads lighter than what is suggested by Hodgdon.

 

[Edward Teach]

47.5 grains works well. I've found that much more than that and the accuracy starts to deteriorate.

 

[c1a1]

Wrong Loads

DO NOT USE 50.0 gr. of H-322 IN YOUR GUIDE GUN! 45-70 RELOADS ARE DIVIDED INTO 3 CATAGORIES, DEPENDING ON THE STRENGTH OF THE ACTION.
1-1873 Springfield Trapdoor actions.
2-1886 Winchester and 1895 Marlin actions
3-Ruger #1 and #3 ONLY
Lyman Reloading Handbook(49th Edition)Recommends starting with 43.0gr H-322, Velocity is1462 fps., pressure- 16,200C.U.P.Maximum load shown was 47.5 H-322, 1717 fps. pressure- 26.800 C.U.P.
Safety is of prime importance when reloading! Buy the appropriate reloading book, or books for the type of bullets you intend to reload.According to Lyman's data, using H-322 in the strongest actions, with a 405gr. cast bullet. the starting load is 47.0-H-322.I hope you have not gone to the range with that load in your Marlin.....C1A1

 

[ben hunchak]

Here we go with the same old argument, most if not all of the calibers chambered in the Marlin including the nearly identical 450 marlin are loaded to 40,000+ psi, but not the 45/70, if you load the 45/70 to near those levels will you turn into a pumpkin? This is a manufacturer vs lawyer thing and of no relevance to the savy reloader. I've tested many 420 gr cast bullets to well over 2000fps using AA2015 and H-335 with no ill effects, except maybe a sore shoulder.

 

[c1a1]

Safe Starting Loads

Here we go with the same old argument, most if not all of the calibers chambered in the Marlin including the nearly identical 450 marlin are loaded to 40,000+ psi, but not the 45/70, if you load the 45/70 to near those levels will you turn into a pumpkin? This is a manufacturer vs lawyer thing and of no relevance to the savy reloader. I've tested many 420 gr cast bullets to well over 2000fps using AA2015 and H-335 with no ill effects, except maybe a sore shoulder.

This thread started off with ART asking for a safe starting load.Speer lists a starting load at 45.0gr. of H-322.Any reloading manual is just a guide, but I believe the listed starting loads should be followed.We "savy"reloaders are well aware of the tensile stremghts of Marlins.Half the fun in reloading is working up to max loads.Ben, where would you have a reloader begin?Not evey reloader has years of experience to draw upon....C1A1

 

[wapitiwhacker]

DO NOT USE 50.0 gr. of H-322 IN YOUR GUIDE GUN! 45-70 RELOADS ARE DIVIDED INTO 3 CATAGORIES, DEPENDING ON THE STRENGTH OF THE ACTION.
1-1873 Springfield Trapdoor actions.
2-1886 Winchester and 1895 Marlin actions
3-Ruger #1 and #3 ONLY
Lyman Reloading Handbook(49th Edition)Recommends starting with 43.0gr H-322, Velocity is1462 fps., pressure- 16,200C.U.P.Maximum load shown was 47.5 H-322, 1717 fps. pressure- 26.800 C.U.P.
Safety is of prime importance when reloading! Buy the appropriate reloading book, or books for the type of bullets you intend to reload.According to Lyman's data, using H-322 in the strongest actions, with a 405gr. cast bullet. the starting load is 47.0-H-322.I hope you have not gone to the range with that load in your Marlin.....C1A1

Just a point of interest. As far as Hogdon is concerned the load load data stocker provided IS for lever guns.They list the top load of 55 gr of H322 as providing a pressure of 39200 CUP. They don't list an H322 load for "modern" actions ie: Ruger #1 or 3, but their top end pressures are 50,000 CUP for those loads. I agree it is wise to find as much information from as many different sources as you can and make informed decisions. In this case Hogdon says these loads are safe for lever actions. Although lever action has an asterisk beside it on the data page I can't find their limitations for this action anywhere in their literature.

Cheers

 

[stocker]

c1a1: Hodgdon specifies the 50 grain start load for unspecified "lever actions" although I suspect they mean modern designs and not original black powder rifles. Their data is just one source available. Lots of guys actually buy loading manuals to get a broader selection of information.

 

[Art]

Keep the advice coming guys I really do appreciate it. I have not yet started loading, so I haven't blown myself up yet at the range. I intend on starting around 45 or 46 grains of powder and going from there. I'd be surprised if I go much more than 48 grains. Just want to give the load enough "umph" to be able to reach out to 150 yds or a tad more if necessary. Don't plan on shooting any grizzlies with it.

 

[Seabass]

Just be carefull with different case capacitys. Hodgdon list Winchester brass for their 45/70 loads which has the greatest capacity. If you subsitute, Remington, starline, federal, etc and load to the max you would be well over 40,000cup. http://www.levergunlovers.com/viewtopic.php?f=81&t=944 as tested by Brian Piearce.

I too have Lyman's 49th edition, they have conserivtive numbers and only rate the ruger actions to 40,000cup and the marlin to 28,000cup. No worries.

Like Ben said the actions of the 45/70 450M are the same. The 450M is rated for 43,000. Hodgdon goes up to 40,000 CUP with the Marlin 1895 lever action and 50,000cup for Rugers.

For your info I've fired hundreads (thousands?) of top 38,000cup to 41,000 cup loads thru my 1895G with no ill effects, other than a sore shoulder!! I usually shoot light plinker loads for fun now!

I found 50gr H322 and a 400gr (420gr) bullet to give excellent accuacy and given a high quality bullet (hardcast/Kodiak/Hawk/Woodliegh/Barnes 0, etc) would be great for anything in NA. The Remingtons are good for practice if not pushed too fast (1700fps they can break up on heavy bone) and the Speer 400gr is softer still.


Good luck.

 

[Edward Teach]

Ken Waters mentions in his tome, a difference between older Marlins and newer manufactured ones. Category 2 loads refer to the older ones...category 3 loads are fine in newer Marlins, but Lyman doesn't make this distinction.