45-70. Pure lead

greatwhitedeerhunter

greatwhitedeerhunter

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New to this bullet making stuff. So I have around 50 lbs pure lead I want to make a 405 gr hunting bullet for the 45-70. I have powder coat on order. Should be here in a couple days would this be ok for a hunting bullet or should I put wheel weights in the mix. To harden it up a bit

Thanks

Scott
 
New to the casting business myself, hopefully somebody with more experience will weigh in.

Seems like most times people have used an alloy of some kind to harden the bullets slightly. I don't know when alloys became common useage but depending on what and how you're hunting I presume pure lead would work ok although you'd be sacrificing at least some penetration for expansion (muzzleloading round ball tends to be pure lead). As I understand, an advantage of alloys is they make filling out the mold easier, I'm having a lot of difficulty getting a good fill using pure lead for boolits although my round ball seem ok. May be my technique, or lack of.

I've shot hard cast projectiles both naked and paper-patched and PP pure lead through my .45-70 and have a leading problem to clean out. Can't say which which type caused it or what exactly went wrong. Hopefully your powder coat keeps it under control.

http://www.lasc.us/castbulletalloy.htm
 
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A lot of testing going on nowadays down south over this subject. Some old school boolit shooters still stick to the hard-fast rule that pure lead cannot be driven very fast nor can it be used without GCing the slugs.
The advent & testing with PC has changed a few minds on this, claiming that a PC'd boolit can be driven over 2000 fps without leading...the big mystery however is why some guns shoot very accurate with pure while others will only shoot harder bullets PC'd bullets into a tight gtoup

The only way you are going to know, in your personal rifles case, is by trial & error. Casting up a small handful for a trial run is the only way you will know if pure is going to work for you. If they achieve an accuracy standard you are comfortable with, pure will sure work for hunting with a 45-70.
 
A buddy of mine that shoots lots of cast 4570 adds tin to harden the mix. The Lyman manual (most recent) has good discussion on this. I'm told to only use pure lead for my muzzle loader.
 
howard2 said:
A buddy of mine that shoots lots of cast 4570 adds tin to harden the mix. The Lyman manual (most recent) has good discussion on this. I'm told to only use pure lead for my muzzle loader.
Click to expand...
As I understand, definitely for round ball. Got a bunch of REALs with a muzzle loader that MAY have been WW (got some WW as part of the pkg). Didn't discover that until after I'd lost contact with the seller so couldn't confirm but they seem to load and shoot ok.
 
Test my unknown lead with the LEE hardness die. Fairly accurate on the pure lead, WW, linotype that I've tested.
Adding tin up to 2% does help fill out the mold.
yonderin said:
As I understand, definitely for round ball. Got a bunch of REALs with a muzzle loader that MAY have been WW (got some WW as part of the pkg). Didn't discover that until after I'd lost contact with the seller so couldn't confirm but they seem to load and shoot ok.
Click to expand...
 
Tin helps fill out a mould, but many fill problems are caused by the mold temperature being too low. Pre heat the mold to about 300F if you can, or just keep casting with it at a good pace and that will eventually warm the mold up so that you get better fill.
 
howard2 said:
A buddy of mine that shoots lots of cast 4570 adds tin to harden the mix. The Lyman manual (most recent) has good discussion on this. I'm told to only use pure lead for my muzzle loader.
Click to expand...

Tin doesn't actually work very well as a hardener. Antimony is what you need to add to make lead alloys harder.
 
greatwhitedeerhunter said:
New to this bullet making stuff. So I have around 50 lbs pure lead I want to make a 405 gr hunting bullet for the 45-70. I have powder coat on order. Should be here in a couple days would this be ok for a hunting bullet or should I put wheel weights in the mix. To harden it up a bit

Thanks

Scott
Click to expand...

What firearm are you shooting this out of?

What powders are you intending to use - smokeless or black powder?
 
By my extensive experience casting bullets for 35Rem I have some idea how it works....
Forget pure lead in 45-70 even with PC.
For hunting;
- up to 1200fps use W-W ( about 2.% antimony included) plus 2%tin.
- up to 1600fps use 25% linotype mixed with 75% W-W plus 2% tin.
- any more speed desired calls for the Lyman #2alloy (5% antimony + 5% tin) and gas check.
Also make sure that bullet is at least .001" larger than your barrel groove diameter.
 
gunrunner8 said:
By my extensive experience casting bullets for 35Rem I have some idea how it works....
Forget pure lead in 45-70 even with PC.
For hunting;
- up to 1200fps use W-W ( about 2.% antimony included) plus 2%tin.
- up to 1600fps use 25% linotype mixed with 75% W-W plus 2% tin.
- any more speed desired calls for the Lyman #2alloy (5% antimony + 5% tin) and gas check.
Also make sure that bullet is at least .001" larger than your barrel groove diameter.
Click to expand...

That would work, but it's not the only way. Powder coating is a game changer. Lots of people breaking 2000fps with no gas check, lead alloys ranging from pure lead to hard cast, and no leading.

Outside of PC, I have had my best results from 2% tin, 4% antimony, and 94% lead. harder bullets actually are more prone to leading in most rifles i've tried, which is over twenty different rifles of various calibers with various loads ranging from sub sound barrier to 2400 fps. The hard cast Lyman recipe bullets work very well within a narrow range in many rifles. Softer bullets have a wider range in many instances but not all. Some rifles will eat anything, some are picky as hell. I cast over 60 different bullets and more than 40,000 bullets/yr, and I learn something new every time I shoot or cast. There is no magic trick that will guarantee success, but PC is something that is working very well for a lot of people and the only drawback is that it is labour intensive.
 
I shoot cast in a number of calibers including 45-70, and my rifle shows a marked preference for 20:1 lead and tin over wheel weights + 2% tin. I would bet you could achieve any velocity you're really interested in with a 45-70 with 20:1 lead and tin. I know I get +/- 1800fps out of it with a 30 30 and a lot faster rifling twist than 45-70. The benefits of hard cast are often wildly excaggerated and you probably don't have to deal with rhinoceros anyway.
Grouch
 
I met a guy hunting with 45-70 lever action.His preference was trapdoor pressure range loads with pure lead bullets.

I don't hunt so I don't understand how/why he preferred that.
 
grouch said:
I shoot cast in a number of calibers including 45-70, and my rifle shows a marked preference for 20:1 lead and tin over wheel weights + 2% tin. I would bet you could achieve any velocity you're really interested in with a 45-70 with 20:1 lead and tin. I know I get +/- 1800fps out of it with a 30 30 and a lot faster rifling twist than 45-70. The benefits of hard cast are often wildly excaggerated and you probably don't have to deal with rhinoceros anyway.
Grouch
Click to expand...

20:1 lead/tin plus 2% tin = 15:1 lead/tin.
 
i agree with eveything Jet said....If your shooting Marlin GG, or something else with a tubular mag, I think pure lead might have a chance at deforming the bullet tips under recoil. I my GG I like 20:1 for my 330gr hollow points, and Lyman #2 for my heavy weight 540's....I don't drive any of them crazy fast. My BP cartridge 45-70 seems happy with 20:1. That's a 525gr bullet....I'd keep it the same if I was hunting with that gun as well
 
I've had good results with 330 gr hp bullets cast from wheel clip on wheel weights. I then size them down and paper patch them... No leading, no powder coat smells in the oven, Let the paper dry, add a light coating of bee's wax/vasoline, load and shoot. No leading either... And brass prep takes a lot less time...
 
I'm new to this too. I'll be pouring my first batch for my 45-70 before too long. I have lots and lots of soft lead. I was thinking of adding some 63 Percent tin, 37 percent lead solder, older wheel weights, and range lead to it. I have molds and a lee bottom pour pot. I was thinking of using sawdust and wax for fluxing. Do I need antimony? Anything else?
 
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