45-70 recoil

My GS shooting 350g bullets at a crony'd 2000fps is more intimidating than my 470 nitro express.

Mine with 350s at 1750, while putting along, are very enjoyable.

My .308Win synthetic stock Tikka with factory ammo is more ignorant to shoot.

Then again, my first change to the GS was to put a Limbsaver on it. Helps a bunch over that hard factory plastic.

That's one of the things that impressed me with both the round and the gun once I got into it, that you can dial it very easily to what you can take and still have a very effective number.
 
I have a Ruger #3 in 45-70 and it will take heavier loads then I can stand to shoot even in it.I have to wear a heavy coat and a slip on butt pad to sight it in or flinch like a girl in a French subway car when I shoot it. It is light to carry all day at least.
 
My experience is with a 45/90, 1886 winchester, but similar results. If you have any sort of hand load worth talking about, and 400 grain bullets, hang on! The crescent butt plate will bruise you some, and the tang sight will eat your thumb if you let it. Oh, and did I mention, don't shoot it in the prone position! :)
 
It feels like a shove

I have an old Guide gun(45.70) and with my 300 gr reloads, it's like a shove, and with the 405 gr bullets it's like a punch in the shoulder. Not a hard punch though. It is ported and loud. And if no one has mentioned factory loads for that round, factory loads are designed for the old Springfield trapdoor rifles (which are sometimes on the brittle side) so it's a softer recoil. Reloading manuals have 45.70 loads for trapdoors, Marlins and Ruger #1s. Load accordingly.Good Luck!
 
My 68yr old mother fires my 45-70 Guide gun several times a year. She is 5'1" and weighs 115lbs. Should be no problem for anyone. It is no worse than a 12g shotgun. If your stance is correct it makes a huge difference.
 
I have felt the recoil just by standing in the shooting shack.
It rocks the shingles.
And you can hear the bullets hit the backstop.
I guess it all depends on what the bullet weight and powder charge is.
They will be along shortly, those that shoot this dust disturber.....

That's not recoil, that's concussion - two very different things. You should feel the shockwave that comes off my .30 Carbine Ruger Blackhawk...
 
Irishlad; Git yer' 68 year old mother out here, she can shoot my new 550 grain bullets at 1700 fps, she'll want nothing to do with either of us after that! I don't care what stance she uses, she'll end up the same way!
 
This is a personal greeting to Ben Hunchuk: Hi Ben from Bob Mitchell, and a Happy New Year!

Ben and I used to compare 45-70 loads at the range when he lived in Ontario. Later I purchased a few hundred of his wonderful 465gr/.459" semi-hardcast for my Marlin and H&R. At around 1900 fps they shot into MOA! I flattened a big black bear with one leaving the muzzle of my H&R at 1900+ fps at 70 yards. There was a loud "thawk!!!" that was heard by a neighbor who said "Either he hit the bear or a large tree!".

I never had time for milk-toast loads in .45-70s... I just don't see the point. If you're gonna use something with a .458" hole in it, then honor it by treating it like you are shooting a Cape buffalo!! It's not a squirrel gun! Man up! Try some of Ben's stuff, they'll work on anything short of Elephant.:D

Bob

www.bigbores.ca
 
Folks should know of Bob Mitchell, he has done alot of testing with the big bores, certainly the 45/70, .458 Mag. and i think the 9.3X62, he has printed reloading journals on this and sells them. His work on the 45/70 is my "go to" info on big game loads, I always figured Bob had tougher shoulders then I. Anyhow Happy New Year to Bob and keep shootin"....your friend!
 
Recoil and the 45-70

Recoil in rifles is a perceived notion and cannot be quantified in a thread like this. Only YOU can determine what is good and what is too much for you. The more you shoot big bores the more you become immune to recoil. This is called desensitisation to an abrupt force upon your body. All shoulder fired rifles are "shootable" obviously, but not by all shooters.
Firearm design and configuration has a great deal to do with perceived recoil. You would find a 45-70 much more pleasant to shoot, in say a Ruger #1 with any given load than in a crescent steel butted '86 Win.
Anyway all calibers are shootable with practice and concentration, the more you shoot it the less it kicks !!
 
Hey Ben, thanks!

Ben knows, of course, that I'm built like a tank, stand 9'-3" in wool socks, and as slim as a 40' rock maple... at only 526.3 lbs! So, I can stand up to the recoil of even a howitzerR:d: The REAL problem is to find reloading components at Epps.G:

Now, as to a .45-70 loaded with Ben's 550-grainers at 3000 fps... that reminds me of my .300 Win Mag that I was shootin' at age 3.;)

Bob

www.bigbores.ca
 
The 45/70 is quite manageable with factory loads or comparable handloads, and recoil is not a problem, in reloading manuals, these are considered "Trapdoor" loads, and are mostly safe in older guns. When you load the 45/70 to it's highest capabilities, eg: 480-500gr. bullet at 1800+ fps., recoil can be vicious....most folks tolerance level is somewhere in between. Whatever you decide, reloading will allow you to try diff. levels and save a pile of money.

I have one and load for it. With mild 300gr. loads it's a ball to shoot. No problem. With a full house load and 425gr. it's no fun at all. And all red neck tough guy poseur B.S. aside I can promise you this: NOBODY will shoot it two times in a row off the bench.
 
Folks should know of Bob Mitchell, he has done alot of testing with the big bores, certainly the 45/70, .458 Mag. and i think the 9.3X62, he has printed reloading journals on this and sells them. His work on the 45/70 is my "go to" info on big game loads, I always figured Bob had tougher shoulders then I. Anyhow Happy New Year to Bob and keep shootin"....your friend!

I called Bob a few years back as we had a mutual friend who put me on to him. According to our friend, Roger, "There's no one who knows more about 45-70 loads than Bob." After getting his manual I am inclined to believe it. It's a wealth of information for anyone reloading for the 45-70 and you'll realize that this gun is capable of a lot more than many of us have come to expect!
 
And all red neck tough guy poseur B.S. aside I can promise you this: NOBODY will shoot it two times in a row off the bench.[/QUOTE]

REALLY!:eek::D

Well, it appears that I'm THAT GUY (referred to above). Yeah, I did lie a little bit... I'm 5'9" (in wool socks), 175 lbs (out of the shower) now... when Ben knew me I was 210 lbs. I turned 76 in December and I'll GLADLY shoot your 425gr ALL DAY LONG! I Shoot 500-grainers at 2200 fps, 400s at 2400 fps and 350s at 2750 fps. The first 2 from a Ruger No.1 .45-70 Improved, and the latter from my former .458 Win/Lott.

The load referred to (465gr at 1900+) was no lie...! That was relatively mild compared to a 600gr at 1900 (from my Ruger #1).

A 425gr at what....?

Bob

www.bigbores.ca
 
Well I'm at the other end of the spectrum as I feel the only rifle I have for that GOV

round is a Springfield trapdoor 1884 (I have a Morgan S Buck of the same year) .

But I use beeswax and bacon grease to lube my self casted 405 grn bullets into

my cartridgess of 70 grains of BP. They are mild from a nine lb rifle ,but at about

1300 ftps that ammount of lead at that speed is enough to kill anything I can imagine.


You don't need extreme speed ,and the black powder is more of a smack as it is an

exsplosive and less of a propelent (you believe that don't you) !

Ben and Bob know more than they could ever tell us!

Bob
 
I had to leave for a while and run some errands... but I wanted to make a few comments on the topic at hand: managing recoil of one of the short Marlins in .45-70.

First off, I'll acknowledge that not every shooter has the same tolerance level for what may be perceived as brutal recoil (or for pain in general). And it doesn't have a lot to do with age, physical strength, size or ###. I'm sure that a number of us have seen the recent ad by Nyquil, where a 200 lb man is in bed with a cold and sniffling like a baby when his wife tosses him a bottle of Nyquil with an attitude that says "Grow up!" The people that put that ad together understood some psychology... that discomfort can be exaggerated (or diminished) by the mind, and it has little to do with ###, size, strength, age, etc and etc.

On my blogs (going back a couple of years) I've written quite a bit on managing the recoil of the Big Bores. Yes, it has little to do with age, ###, etc. If that's true, then the remaining issues are weight of rifle, stock shape and size, recoil pad, bullet weight, powder charge, muzzle velocity and technique. All of those can be modified in one way or another to reduce felt recoil if wanted or needed.

However, technique and mental attitude are still most important. Learning to shoot a big-bore rifle properly is a learned skill. It's NOT something that comes naturally. Anyone can learn it. There are women that barely weigh 100 lbs who shoot the 460 Weatherby without fear or discomfort. I know of one who tests loads for Barnes in shooting the true Big Bores. So, the important thing here is to know someone who has this skill and is willing to teach you.

DO NOT, go to the range with a "hot loaded" Marlin to prove that you "can take it". That's a good way to convince yourself that you made a BIG mistake of purchase.

Some general rules in learning to manage recoil of a rifle that generates over 35 ft-lbs of recoil:

1) At the bench for sighting in and some practice: pull the rifle tight into the shoulder pocket with the "trigger" hand while holding down on the forearm with the "other" hand. This is not to impress the "bench rest" boys, or the writers of the "rags". DO NOT SLOUCH! Have the rifle sights (iron or glass) at eye level when sitting upright so the body will "give" with the recoil.

2) Start with moderate loads, and work up gradually from there. This assumes you are a handloader.

3) Fire no more than 6 to 10 rounds per session. Intersperse that with something like a .22LR. "Per session" means a single trip to the range.

4) Mentally, walk yourself through each shot.

5) Tell yourself that it may hurt some, but it won't injure, cripple or kill you.

6) Tell yourself that you can master "the beast".

7) After the first couple of shots, take a breather and shoot some .22 LR.

6) Go back to the bench and fire off 2 more, take a breather, etc, until you've fired about 6.

7) Find a safe place to shoot off-hand. My range allows that at 50 and 100 yds. Then, I practice on crown land in a safe area in off-season. Or on a farm, with permission.

8) Learn to shoot off-hand: If you shoot from the right side, place your left foot about 2 to 2.5 ft in front of the right foot(depending on how tall you are), at a natural angle, and in the general direction of the line of fire. Lean slightly forward, bending the left knee slightly while keep the right knee straight (but not stiff). Bring rifle tight to shoulder, focus on sight picture, squeeze trigger (without loaded ammo) and follow through allowing body muscles to relax.

After this practice (about ten times), do the real thing, allowing the body to "roll" with the recoil. For lefties (like me), simply reverse the holds, position of legs, feet, etc.

This will be a start... work up from there. NOTHING BEATS PRACTICE. And keep in mind what we said about the ways to modify the rifle itself. This latter has to do with mindset and technique.

AND, I NEED to add: at the bench I ALWAYS use a PAST MAGNUM shoulder pad when shooting anything that may be considered a true Big Bore, or something like a .340 WBY or .375 H&H. I may be stupid, but I'm not foolish!:D

Bob

www.bigbores.ca
 
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I always figured Bob had tougher shoulders then I.
I always figured the same.
With a full house load and 425gr. it's no fun at all. And all red neck tough guy poseur B.S. aside I can promise you this: NOBODY will shoot it two times in a row off the bench.
There are some - Bob M. is most certainly one - but he's no redneck poseur. However he sure eats up the stiffest loads the 45/70 is capable of - in relatively light rifles. I also spent a little range time with Bob over the years while he was perfecting some of his dragon slayer "improved" 45/70 loads. I've found his thoughts on shooting the heavy kickers to be very useful to me to consider.

Myself I've learned thru time to be better at handling the kickers it seems. I've been using my own 45/70 shoulder displacer this past year - an TC Encore with a 15" barrel (recoil unleashed). It makes those short Marlin guide guns look positively anvil like. However it's great to carry and lotsa fun to shoot if ya treat it right - with respect. But so far I've just used moderate loads of 325s chronyed at 2000MV. Might try some 405s one day but heavier than that - probably NO.
 
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