45-70 Reloading. Anyone have a favourite combination?

northern ranger

northern ranger

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Hi,

Loading for a HandiRifle in 45-70.

I love this little gun.

As I shoot cowboy action mostly, I have lots of Trail Boss around. Also have Varget, FFG Goex, and Pyrodex RS.

I have a 450 gr RNFP mold for it as well.

Loading blackpowder is pretty easy to work up, but can only find Trail Boss data for 405 and 485 cast. Nothing for 450. Also, Varget stops at 405 gr. Kind of understand that.

I know that I can use the 485 loads for 450 safely, but think they may be a bit light. Don't want to try the 405 loads, big "no no" using the lighter bullet data for a heavier bullet.

Any suggestions?

Also have some .457 round ball, and hear it is a great plinker load in the 45-70.

Thanks in advance!
 
I also really like my 45-70 handi-rifle :D I have a 45-70 lever on my wishlist but it's not a priority at the moment.

Trail Boss load instructions are simply find the maximum capacity of the case under the bullet without compressing the powder and use 70% of that weight for the starting load (100% is your maximum). Using this method I have used Trail Boss in a half dozen different cartridges with cast bullets. I hold the bullet up to the side of the case (very easy with straight walled cases like 45-70) and mark a line where the bottom of the bullet is. I then measure that from the top of the case and fill the case to that depth inside. Dump onto a scale and you have your 100% load.

For heavy hunting loads I use 55gr of H4198 with 300gr JHP's and it delivers ~2360fps. For cast I run 350gr and 500gr WW without GC's. The 500gr go a slow ~975fps with 15gr of Trail Boss, ~1100fps with 16gr of Bluedot, and ~1450fps with 40gr of H4895. The faster load I have used to punch through ~12" poplar trees. My 500gr cast are from the Lee mould that makes pointed bullets so great for the handi, not so great for levers. I don't size any of my cast for 45-70 and have fired bullets up to .461" without issue. Tried pan lubing but haven't noticed any difference from tumble lubing so I gave up on the pan. I'm currently doing accuracy testing with the 350gr bullets (have 100 loaded up in 5 shot groups of each load but haven't been to a range with them yet) so don't have many results for those.
 
IMR posts the "not to exceed" load of Trailboss as 13.0 with 405 cast bullets.

Mind, that is for Trapdoor, not modern rifle, but I can't even find Trailboss listed for modern rifle or lever gun.

I am familiar with the Trailboss workup formula, but the published max for this cartridge seemed to contradict it.
 
My guess would be that is just for trap door rifles as they require extra legal liability. My load of 15gr under a 500gr bullet will produce quite a bit more pressure than 13gr under a 405gr bullet. Still not an issue in terms of pressure for a modern action.

I have only found Trail Boss load data for a hand full of cartridges and they are mostly for antique actions meant for black powder. I don't think I've seen Trail Boss load data for any modern cartridge or modern actioned old cartridge as that is when the normal workup procedure comes in.
 
I'll go look in the man cave for my load data for my Handi rifle. Off the top of my head, Unique for 1100-1200 fps loads, Blue dot for 1350-1400 fps loads, IMR-4198 for my next step up.
 
405 grn cast bullet (lee mold), 14 grains Unique 1190 fps
500 grn bullet, 37 grains RL-7 no chrono
405 grn cast bullet, 20 grains Blue Dot 1385 fps
500 grn cast bullet, 14 grains Blue Dot 1010 fps
500 grn cast, 40 grains IMR_4064 1170 fps
500 grn bullet, 11 grains Unique no chrono
405 grn cast, 30 grains IMR-4198

Some of what I've shot out of my Handi rifle. Safe in my rifle, but use at your own risk.
 
saskgunowner101 said:
405 grn cast bullet (lee mold), 14 grains Unique 1190 fps
500 grn bullet, 37 grains RL-7 no chrono
405 grn cast bullet, 20 grains Blue Dot 1385 fps
500 grn cast bullet, 14 grains Blue Dot 1010 fps
500 grn cast, 40 grains IMR_4064 1170 fps
500 grn bullet, 11 grains Unique no chrono
405 grn cast, 30 grains IMR-4198

Some of what I've shot out of my Handi rifle. Safe in my rifle, but use at your own risk.
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Thanks! I'll add these to the recipe book!

Still looking for a recipe for 450 gr cast. Lee mold, but that's less important than the weight.
 
saskgunowner101 said:
I have some more load data that another member sent me I can look for, and if you want to do some thinking out loud, send me a pm.
Click to expand...

Had a couple different people send me the same "gallery load" to try.

It uses a 457 round ball with 9 gr of Win 231. Apparently quite accurate at 50 yards. The 457 BP ball from Hornady tips my scale at 144 gr.

That load looked familiar, so I checked my notes. I have a 231 load with a bit heavier bullet for 45 colt that is also 9 gr. I also have a cross reference load in Trailboss for the 45 colt.

I just loaded up a handful each of 231 in 7 and 9 grains, and Trail Boss in 7 and 9 grains as well.

If the weather is decent tomorrow, I'll go give 'em a try.
 
About all I use in the 45-70 is SR-4759 or one of the 4198's, usually under the 535 gr "Postell" cast bullet. I don't exceed 1350 fps - great for Cowboy shooting at the 200 yd gong.
 
northern ranger said:
Had a couple different people send me the same "gallery load" to try.

It uses a 457 round ball with 9 gr of Win 231. Apparently quite accurate at 50 yards. The 457 BP ball from Hornady tips my scale at 144 gr.

That load looked familiar, so I checked my notes. I have a 231 load with a bit heavier bullet for 45 colt that is also 9 gr. I also have a cross reference load in Trailboss for the 45 colt.

I just loaded up a handful each of 231 in 7 and 9 grains, and Trail Boss in 7 and 9 grains as well.

If the weather is decent tomorrow, I'll go give 'em a try.
Click to expand...

Update: Range Report

The Handi-Rifle likes the Trail Boss best, likely because of the added bulk.

All shots were on paper, and surprisingly good, considering it was a round ball with very little powder in a big case. You can make it work with 231, if that's what you have, but reach for the Trail Boss if it is available to you.

The best load was a 7.5 grain of Trail Boss, 144 gr round ball seated in the mouth of the case and lightly crimped. 3 round Cloverleaf at 50 yards, 1 inch left of he bullseye (strong cross wind from the right).

These are definite gallery loads! I had to check closely after the first shot; it was so light and quiet, I thought the powder had not ignited. A trip down range showed the ball blew right through the plywood the target was stapled to though.

These are a great and fun load, and how else can the 8 year old get to squeeze a round off on a 45-70?

Keep in mind, super low-power loads of Trail Boss are VERY dirty......
 
I tried trail boss with my Ruger 1 and the bullets were flying really high.
Figured the recoil was sending the barrel up before the bullet got out the end of the barrel.
No more trail boss for me,I'm talking more than a foot high!
The best powder I have found for 350 grain bullets is Reloader7,
Burns real clean and great accuracy from my Ruger.
Mutt
 
Mutt58 said:
I tried trail boss with my Ruger 1 and the bullets were flying really high.
Figured the recoil was sending the barrel up before the bullet got out the end of the barrel.
No more trail boss for me,I'm talking more than a foot high!
The best powder I have found for 350 grain bullets is Reloader7,
Burns real clean and great accuracy from my Ruger.
Mutt
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip, I'll watch for that! I am loading Trail Boss pretty much exclusively for Cowboy Action right now, and in particular the Henry Big Boy in 357 loves it. Shoots well in my Pietta's as well. I use the same load in my 38 and 357 shells, so if I grab the wrong one in a reload, I don't get any surprises.

The SAA's are 357 too, so all three shoot both happily, but the Henry cycles more reliably on the clock with the longer brass.

I have never found the Trail Boss to shoot high, but it is a pretty quick powder, maybe in the big cases, that was the problem. I'd think it would come in handy out to 200 yards though if this is the case.

For my little test, the 231 shot high, the Trail Boss was right where I'd have expected it to be.

More work required. This is the fun part!
 
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