Hey guys. I've been searching the last few days for my dad. He's been looking for ammo for his 45-90 and I can only find live rounds available in the states. Does anyone know where I can source some out in Canada as I can only find either brass or the lead. Thanks in advance.
45-90 ammo
- Thread starter Maniram
- Start date
NorthCoastBigBore
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Northwest BC (Rural) 103-I-##
As Paatz says, reloading is your only practical option here. Even if you find a box, it is likely to be $$$$. It isn't difficult to get into reloading for this, just a little pricey on the upfront cost for the bra$$ but frankly the brass lasts forever if you do your part (neck size only, anneal as needed, etc). Bullets are the same .458" is .45-70, .458 WM etc. You can reload .45-90 with .45-70 dies if stuck but dies for the '90s are available and no difference in cost (depending on where you find them anyway).
You can also shoot .45-70 out of a .45-90, although depending on the throat of the rifle in question the accuracy can suffer. Unless you reload with the bullet seated out far enough to get into the throat (or at least reduce the "jump"), then the bullet has to "jump" more than it does in the usual .38/.357 chamber analogy, so it isn't the same thing. If you try that:
1) DON'T use the modern "Leverution" (sp?) or anything hotter than "Trapdoor pressure". Again, reloading is the best bet here...personally I'd avoid factory modern ammo...YMMV
2) If it is a 19th century bore, I'd personally avoid jacketed bullets and stick to cast although that is only one opinion, seems to be evidence on both sides there.
I would suggest just setting up to reload the .45-90 as-is, it is a great hobby and even if your dad decides to sell the rifle, it can be sold a little easier if the components to shoot it are there with it. Good luck in getting the old girl shooting, lotta folks here with a lot of knowledge in doing exactly that if you're stuck.
Edit: I should also mention, my personal preference on this caliber in an original, is BLACK powder; but you can certainly, safely load it with smokeless just do your homework; lots of info on this forum and on the intermanet in general on that topic.
You can also shoot .45-70 out of a .45-90, although depending on the throat of the rifle in question the accuracy can suffer. Unless you reload with the bullet seated out far enough to get into the throat (or at least reduce the "jump"), then the bullet has to "jump" more than it does in the usual .38/.357 chamber analogy, so it isn't the same thing. If you try that:
1) DON'T use the modern "Leverution" (sp?) or anything hotter than "Trapdoor pressure". Again, reloading is the best bet here...personally I'd avoid factory modern ammo...YMMV
2) If it is a 19th century bore, I'd personally avoid jacketed bullets and stick to cast although that is only one opinion, seems to be evidence on both sides there.
I would suggest just setting up to reload the .45-90 as-is, it is a great hobby and even if your dad decides to sell the rifle, it can be sold a little easier if the components to shoot it are there with it. Good luck in getting the old girl shooting, lotta folks here with a lot of knowledge in doing exactly that if you're stuck.
Edit: I should also mention, my personal preference on this caliber in an original, is BLACK powder; but you can certainly, safely load it with smokeless just do your homework; lots of info on this forum and on the intermanet in general on that topic.
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to the extent that 45-120 rifles are mostly or all single shots, if you are only target shooting with it, you do not need dies. When I owned one, I used a decapping pin to deprime the shells, new primers can be seated with no die, just a 45-70 size holder in a loading press. With black powder loads, use a drop tube and lightly compress, adding a card wad then add a grease cookie if desired and sit the bullet on top of that. If you want less powder fill the space between the bullet base and the powder with corn mealw
cheers mooncoon
cheers mooncoon
NorthCoastBigBore
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Northwest BC (Rural) 103-I-##
Limited run, and it ended, actually a few years ago now, unless you have a line on a new run. Easier to find a box of Dominion etc at least anywhere out of the major centers.
Depending on the cost, reloading is probably still cheaper anyway, judging by the cost of a factory box of .45-70s these days.
fingers284
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta Cowboy Ranges
And if you find any of this or have any on hand I would strongly suggest you pull the bullets and pour/scrap the powder. I had 5 boxes of the stuff and after hang-fires from the first two rounds (one bulged the chamber in an original 85 high-wall), I started pulling bullets...every round had powder that was contaminated with something or other, all of it was a mixture of white, blue or copper colored kernels that poured in clumps.
Turtleman,
I can't speak for 45-90 as I don't own one, but with my 50-140, once fired casings and a properly sized cast boolit, I can seat the bullet using thumb pressure.
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I reload on the range using a Lee handloader set and their own .45-70Govt dies. I paid just $35 for mine about fifteen years ago - they are now still only US$50. As the bullets have a very clearly delineated set of grooves and bands, they are very easy to load by hand pressure alone to the same point, as Mr BDL931 notes above. Since I've been doing it for many years it's not a problem for me to just put the bullet in the neck and squeeze it between my thumb and index finger - a little practice and you're good to go. Note that .45-70 is about the longest you can load - an OAL of 3.65" is the maximum with this neat little gizmo. You'll also need a set of scales and a BP powder dispenser, one made specially for BP.
tac
As BDL931 has already said, once fire shells expand to match the chamber and you can just push the slugs in with your fingers. Decapping pins can be bought in gun stores / departments and are just a 3/16" rod with a short pin on the end that you strike with a hammer. Support the base of the shell with a 45-70 size shell holder sitting on a block of wood with a hole under the holder, for the primers to drop into. For repriming there are hand tools made that vaguely look like a pair of pliers and you use them to press in a new primer. An ordinary loading press with just the base holder and no die above will also press the primers in. Finally you could also make a bubba style press out of wood with a wooden post that fits inside the shell to support it and a oak lever arm above to press the primer in.
There is a book called the Paper Jacket by Paul Mathews which an excellent read on reloading black powder cartridges. I would not suggest paper patching only because you would need a sizing press for the paper patched slugs
cheers mooncoon
My .38-55 casings open up a little too much so the bullets fall in or drop out unless I "neck size" the casings using the sizing die. Depending on the chamber condition I'd expect some will leave the necks just right like BDL found or they may let the case mouths open up like mine are and the bullet won't have any neck tension at all.
Turtleman, that last statement has a few reloading terms in it but hopefully you get the idea that the bullets need some tension holding them that comes from the neck size of the casings being a snug push fit.
The GOOD news is that all the cases we're looking at in this thread have a slight gentle taper from bigger at the head to slightly smaller at the mouth of the casings. So you can use a set of .45-70 dies and insert the cases only part way until you get just the right neck tension. Just set the die up higher in the threading of the press so it's not a full insertion. It's one of those "tricks" of reloading the old black powder "straight walled" cartridges similar to some you've already read in this thread. Tricks that often can't be used on bottle neck cartridges.
As mentioned if the goal is to shoot this gun on a regular basis and even if the total round count per year is only up around 100 rounds you WILL want to buy the components and get yourselves into reloading even if it's only for this one specific rifle. Even if you found a supply of .45-90 the cost would be so high that you'd pay for the press and any other gear within a couple of hundred rounds worth of reloading your own.
And if the mouths stay tight enough that firm thumb pressure is present for seating a new bullet you could get by without even a press and dies. So that would be SUPER cheap. The cases in a single shot only need to retain that bit of neck tension needed to hold the bullet well enough. If the cases don't hold the bullets then even a simple and cheap press with a set of .45-70 dies will get you running since you won't need to full length size the cases.
Hodgdon has a cowboy action section in their downloadable manual. It lists a couple of smokeless powder loads that are suitable for the old guns. Sadly it does not specifically list the charges for 45-90. But due to the increase in case volume you'd be fine to use the maximum charges shown for the slightly smaller .45-70 loads to get yourself a good and safe minimum to medium .45-90 load. And from shooting some .45-70 loads in rifles belonging to friends I'm thinking that this would be just fine for your dad's and your shoulders. And for an older antique gun or a reproduction modern gun the pressure with such a load would be well within the ability of the steel.
Good point: if it is a single shot then slugs seated by finger pressure are probably preferred for max accuracy but if it is an old lever gun then having a slug pull out of the case while cycling through the action will make a real mess - and the slugs for a lever gun should have a flat nose rather than a long pointy one. Of course we are all talking cast bullets here rather than jacketed ones even though jacketed .458 slugs are available.
