.45 ACP not good for a first handgun?

A 9x19 in a light weight short barreled pistol will be hard to control for a new shooter,

a sig 220 with a high barell axis will cause a lot of barrell flip(hard to control also).

Most new shooters once they learn about (limp wristing)find the 1911 a great pointer.

Once they lean into it they find it is most accurate.

Bob
 
The 1911 is one of the most flexible and versatile platforms you will find. Mine is in .45 acp, .400 CorBon & .22 LR

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By lawrence9 at 2008-04-19
 
regardless of ammo cost. every one should have a clasic stock 1911. even if its just a safe queen most of the time.
 
I agree that a 1911 with a .22 conversion is one of the best platforms to shoot one.

Garand,

Please consider doing a write up thread on your 1911. From that one pick, it looks awesome.

When do you use the .400 conversion?
 
I gotta say, I tried a .22 1911 last range trip with another CGNer, I kinda want one.. Well priced, and I have tons of .22 LR ammo.. It seems like a decent starting point.. And cheap to shoot, compared to my latest buy..
Marlin 1895GG in 45-70.. (1998 model, not the new crap).
 
leave the 22 in the store, if you want the 45 buy the 45. it is not violent to shoot and it is super fun. 22's are boring in a handgun. get a norc, a press and some 230 gr lead, buy one container of clays powder and 1000 primers stick 3.8 grains in each case top with a 230 gr bullet load to an oal of 1.245 inch. shoot the snot out of it and try to get the grin off your face. my first pistol was a norc 45 i still have it i will never sell it
 
Just to chime in.

You want a 45 as your first, then go ahead and buy it.

However, it really depends on what you want to do in the longer run. Do you just want to blast away at targets? A box or two of ammo at a time? Great, go have fun with the 45.

Do you also want to get GOOD at shooting a handgun? Then your SECOND gun should be a 22.

Shoot enough and EVERYONE develops a flinch. Some flinches are really tiny and not really noticeable (you just never seem to shrink groups below 6" at 10m) but some are major and you are lucky to hit the target.

Cost of ammo? When I go to the range with one or two of my kids for an evening, we typically go through 500 - 1000+ rounds, a few hundred rounds of centrefire and the rest 22. The 22s are to refine skills that tend to get covered up by recoil in a CF, you can's really see or figure out what is going wrong in technique. Also it would get kind of expensive to go through that much 45 every time. You can't compare shooting 40 rounds of rifle ammo to an evening with a few handguns.

And most 22s are much more accurate than CF handguns. Why? Most 22s have fixed barrels, and most CF autos don't. The moving barrels create movement which affects accuracy big time. If you note there are very few CF autos in accuracy competitions (Bullseye, PPC) and the autos used in those competitions are specialized and expensive.
 
SandRoad said:
Shoot enough and EVERYONE develops a flinch. Some flinches are really tiny and not really noticeable but some major and you won't keep shots on target..
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Ironically, I had to shoot enough to overcome a flinch. I still have it a bit, because I sometimes blink on the first shot only doing double action after a draw in Production.

I originally started shooting .45 ACP with a 1911 too. A Ruger MKIII .22 was my second handgun. The .22 didn't help my flinch in the same way a pellet gun wouldn't. I didn't flinch with the .22, but going to a 9mm or the .45 would just bring it back. I could consistently shoot 4" groups at 25 yards in the upper alpha zone with the .22, but often had only half my shoots hit A's with a 9mm CZ or .45 1911 - all usually low and to the left of course (I'm right handed).

I'm not really convinced a light caliber gun will help to prevent developing a flinch with guns that make a bigger bang. Otherwise we could all easily solve flinches with airsoft guns in our living rooms. We need to get past a flinch using the gun that makes us flinch in my opinion. If that's a .45 ACP, then shooting a lot of it during live fire exercises is the best way for me to solve that problem.
 
Skyhawk said:
Ironically, I had to shoot enough to overcome a flinch. I still have it a bit, because I sometimes blink on the first shot only doing double action after a draw in Production.

.....

I'm not really convinced a light caliber gun will help to prevent developing a flinch with guns that make a bigger bang. Otherwise we could all easily solve flinches with airsoft guns in our living rooms. We need to get past a flinch using the gun that makes us flinch in my opinion. If that's a .45 ACP, then shooting a lot of it during live fire exercises is the best way for me to solve that problem.
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A 22 won't necessarily prevent or overcome a flinch, but it does make it much more obvious as to what is "going wrong", and easier to get on the path of correcting the problem.

As for "get past a flinch with the gun that causes it". That is one way, but quite inefficient. I coach rifle, and have been coached by world class coaches/shooters, and having someone that can really coach properly makes a HUGE difference.

In the absence of a real coach then dry firing, and air pistol are actually very efficient ways of overcoming a flinch. Remember, flinching is a MENTAL problem, not a physical one.
 
Skyhawk, a .22 won't cure anything on its own. You still need to realize what is going on and use the .22 to attain the desired detachment from the recoil that causes the flinch issues. In other words you STILL need to learn to shoot through the blast and recoil in order to shoot well. The .22 just is a cheaper tool to use for this and due to the lower recoil level is easier to get into the right frame of mind where only the trigger and the sight picture is what you're focused on. When you've got the right focus you switch to the center fire gun and shoot it until you notice the flinch is back or that your sense of focus is gone. Then you switch back to the .22 for a while.

But in any event you need to still focus your mind on the process. The .22 won't do squat for a flinch if it's not used in conjunction with the correct mental state and desire to cure the issue.
 
A .22 handgun will not teach you more than proper dryfiring will.

While I am not an expert shooter by any stretch of the imagination, I have introduced quite a few people to our sport. In so doing, I taught them the basics of handgun shooting, like proper grip, sight picture, breathing, posture and balance, leg/knee/foot position, stance etc. All of them were shooting well inside of one hour, many were hitting the bull consistently after fewer than 50 rounds. The gun I normally use to introduce them to handgunning? Any of my Norinco 1911s in .45 acp. Sometimes, the Ruger P89 9mm or 686 revolver joins in when the individual prefers their "feel".

The bulk of this one hour is spent dry firing. If they miss the bullseye once or twice, they go back to dry fire. Complete newbs learn to shoot .45 1911s with minimal or no flinch. They learn the correct habits if taught proper technique from the onset.

This is the main reason my S&W M-17 .22 revolver was traded away (for a Glock 17RTF). It didn't get any love anymore.
 
Learn on the best 1911 .45 you can afford, I suggest an STI Spartan as low end, STI Trojan as ideal. Purchase a quality reloader (not a lee) then go and have fun. :)
 
easyrider604 said:
A .22 handgun will not teach you more than proper dryfiring will.

While I am not an expert shooter by any stretch of the imagination, I have introduced quite a few people to our sport. In so doing, I taught them the basics of handgun shooting, like proper grip, sight picture, breathing, posture and balance, leg/knee/foot position, stance etc. All of them were shooting well inside of one hour, many were hitting the bull consistently after fewer than 50 rounds. The gun I normally use to introduce them to handgunning? Any of my Norinco 1911s in .45 acp. Sometimes, the Ruger P89 9mm or 686 revolver joins in when the individual prefers their "feel".

The bulk of this one hour is spent dry firing. If they miss the bullseye once or twice, they go back to dry fire. Complete newbs learn to shoot .45 1911s with minimal or no flinch. They learn the correct habits if taught proper technique from the onset.

This is the main reason my S&W M-17 .22 revolver was traded away (for a Glock 17RTF). It didn't get any love anymore.
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Do you hold a course of something in Vancouver? I would love to sharpen up my pistol techniques.
 
Total agreement

easyrider604 said:
A .22 handgun will not teach you more than proper dryfiring will.

While I am not an expert shooter by any stretch of the imagination, I have introduced quite a few people to our sport. In so doing, I taught them the basics of handgun shooting, like proper grip, sight picture, breathing, posture and balance, leg/knee/foot position, stance etc. All of them were shooting well inside of one hour, many were hitting the bull consistently after fewer than 50 rounds. The gun I normally use to introduce them to handgunning? Any of my Norinco 1911s in .45 acp. Sometimes, the Ruger P89 9mm or 686 revolver joins in when the individual prefers their "feel".

The bulk of this one hour is spent dry firing. If they miss the bullseye once or twice, they go back to dry fire. Complete newbs learn to shoot .45 1911s with minimal or no flinch. They learn the correct habits if taught proper technique from the onset.

This is the main reason my S&W M-17 .22 revolver was traded away (for a Glock 17RTF). It didn't get any love anymore.
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You are bang on. All of the basics you describe can be learned with any gun in your hand. Recoil and noise are part of shooting just as getting wet is part of learning how to surf. I'm not advocating giving a newbie a .44 Magnum on day one, but any reasonable caliber from .38 to .45 is an introduction that is REAL. A good grip and the other basics will allow a person to regain a good sight picture after the first shot. Creating a situation with little or no recoil does not serve the learning process well in my opinion. The results of a poor stance and bad posture will be revealed and be apparent with the moderate recoil and flip of a "reasonable" round. I am a relative newbie who learned with a .45 during most of my baptism. Later on, I moved a young lady progressively through several calibers up to and including my .357 revolver all within one hour and got rewarded with massive smiles. Let me emphasize, there is nothing inferior about shooting rimfire. But for people who will want to shoot the heavier calibers, I just don't see using the .22 as training wheels.
 
Just get a full size 1911 in .45 and buy a .22 kit whit it. My first pistol was a .45 and I would still buy a .45 before a 9mm or .40

The recoil of a .45 is a big slow recoil, a 9mm is a lot more snappy!

Get what you want and you will be happy, buy what other people recommend you to buy and you will most likely go back and buy the firstthing you wanted.
 
easyrider604 said:
A .22 handgun will not teach you more than proper dryfiring will.

While I am not an expert shooter by any stretch of the imagination, I have introduced quite a few people to our sport. In so doing, I taught them the basics of handgun shooting, like proper grip, sight picture, breathing, posture and balance, leg/knee/foot position, stance etc. All of them were shooting well inside of one hour, many were hitting the bull consistently after fewer than 50 rounds. The gun I normally use to introduce them to handgunning? Any of my Norinco 1911s in .45 acp. Sometimes, the Ruger P89 9mm or 686 revolver joins in when the individual prefers their "feel".

The bulk of this one hour is spent dry firing. If they miss the bullseye once or twice, they go back to dry fire. Complete newbs learn to shoot .45 1911s with minimal or no flinch. They learn the correct habits if taught proper technique from the onset.

This is the main reason my S&W M-17 .22 revolver was traded away (for a Glock 17RTF). It didn't get any love anymore.
Click to expand...

This post has merit. You're not going to get good by blasting lead at a target, you need to spend a good deal of time with a 22lr handgun, and just as much time switching between dry fire and live 9mm or 45 ammo.
 
I bought a 1911 style Kimber 45 Pro Carry II and absolutely love it!
Single stack mags/narrower handle means it's easier to wrap your hands around it.
Bonus is you can buy a .22 upper from Kimber if you want to use your existing lower.
I use my 45 for IPSC, IDPA & 3-gun and it's flawless.
I buy reloads for $350/1000 rounds.
 
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