.45 Auto reloading data confusion...

Mr-X

Mr-X

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Hello, I have been reloading for a few months now but just recently got the dies and supplies I need to start reloading for my .45 auto.

I am reloading 230gr fmj rn with Aliant Unique, I went on Aliant's Website and found everything I need in there data center (or so I thought) and went down to the press to start making a few test rounds. I opened my Lee Dies and saw they had a data chart with the dies.

Here is where the confusion starts... The data that lee provides is "Minimum charge is 6.0 and min OAL is 1.190" the "Never exceed" charge on the chart is 6.0 and they list the max OAL at 1.275.

On the Aliant site the data they provide is that the starting charge should be 10% less than the listed charge which is 6.5 making the starting charge 5.85 with a minimum OAL of 1.26.

I loaded a round to Lee's minimum OAL and bullet was almost seated past the round part of the bullet. I never load to the minimum but even 0.020 over seems way to short.

I guess my question is which data sounds most right?

There is only 0.015" difference between Aliant's Minimum OAL and Lee's max OAL...
 
First - buy a Reloading Manual or two!!!! Like Speer #13, Lyman Pistol & Revolver Handbook or so.

Then - OAL of 1.275" is max for the cartridge. People usually load between min OAL and max OAL.

And, with FMJ bullet and Unique powder, you are in OAL 1.24-1.27" and powder charge 5.5-6.5gr territory.

THE SHORTER YOU LOAD (OAL) - THE LOWER your powder charge should be.
 
Hi. Lee gets their data from other sources. Usually from the powder makers. They do no testing themselves.
It's not unusual for loading manuals(and sites) to conflict. The data reflects conditions on the day of the tests and the powder lot used. It's best to follow the powder maker's data.
"...starting charge 5.85..." Use 5.8. No scale is accurate enough for the .05.
"...minimum OAL of 1.26..." The OAL differences are about the shape of the bullet. Not all RN's are shaped the same. Some have a bit of a rounded point, others do not. Lee's minimum is about lighter bullets. Load 'em to 1.275" and you'll be fine.
A light taper crimp only.
You'll want to think about finding a source for 230 grain cast bullets too. Shooting jacketed bullets gets expensive fast. Just don't use jacketed data for a cast bullet.
 
Lee data takes into account the "spring" built into their equipment, pot metal must have some give or it will just break under any kind of strain. I'd go by data/specs from a reputable source, or someone on the street, before I would trust Lee "data".
 
As a rule of thumb, when asking any question about anything to do with Lee, please disregard any of the Ben Hunchaks posts. He/she seems to think that just because he/she has been casting/reloading since the dawn of man, and was never able to use Lee equipment, that it is all junk. There are thousands of us who dont have any trouble with our Lee equipment.
When getting load data, always a good idea to crossreference from a couple of different manuals.
 
Never mind the published OAL; whatever fits your gun is correct. First, take the barrel out of your pistol. Make a dummy round that is slightly over length and gradually adjust the seating depth back until it drops freely all the way into the chamber, just like a sized empty case. If that feeds through the magazine and you don't have any trouble ejecting it, you have successfully set your OAL. Retain the dummy round for future reference.

I don't think you can go too far wrong using the powder manufacturer's data to work up a load.
 
One limitation about the Lee data is that they select charges that are safe, reduce them by another 10% and try to match them to the dipper (not the NDP kind) or the cavities they have. Their data are O.K. and safe but I don't ever recall my actual loads ever matching their data. Lyman has excellent reloading books because they don't push for a particular make of powder and bullet and they test for actual pressures. In a .45 ACP, you will probably end up determining the best OAL by folding in feeding reliability within the minimum and maximum listed.
 
Thanks for all the replies. I really appreciate the info!

I do have the Lyman 49th edition but aparently I am an idiot and just found out that a TMJ bullet and FML bullet share the same data...

Thanks again!
 
Hi Mr-X

It may help you to know a couple of general rules as far as ammo making for pistols goes.

1) Generally, the longer your COL for a given bullet type, the better your cartridges will feed. This has to do with reducing the angle at which the cartridge presents itself at the chamber mouth. By this generality, the longest cartridge you can produce that will neither, jamb the bullet into the barrel's lands upon chambering nor jamb up inside the magazine, is the cartridge you want.

2) For a given powder charge, especially in pistol cartridges, changes in COL "significantly" effect internal pressures. As CeeZer states above, powder charges and COL's will be directly proportional, all else being equal. Ergo, when a manual stipulates a COL for a cartridge, its recommended powder load ranges relate to that COL and no other. Now, a few thou one way or the other won't matter much but don't be too arbitrary about your COL's.


Remove the barrel from your pistol so you can use it and one of your magazines for test purposes. Make a dummy (no powder or primer), round to 1.26 or 1.275 or whatever. Holding your pistol barrel chamber up, drop your dummy round into the chamber. You'll hear the clunk of the case rim hitting the chamber edge. Press the cartridge firmly into the chamber with your thumb. Now turn the barrel so the chamber faces downward. If the cartridge falls out under its own weight, then this cartridge fits your chamber. Next load the dummy into your magazine and, placing factory rounds on top of it, load the magazine to capacity. Now flick all the rounds out of your mag with your thumb. No jambing ?? Good ! This COL can be used and, if desired, you can repeat the process using a longer COL but this should not be necessary unless you experience feeding problems at the range.

With your COL issues thus settled, you can start working up loads per an appropriate manual.

One other important point; "switch to 185g or 200g JSWC bullets", they make an awesome f**king hole :D.
 
HKMark23 said:
...Remove the barrel from your pistol so you can use it and one of your magazines for test purposes. Make a dummy (no powder or primer), round to 1.26 or 1.275 or whatever. Holding your pistol barrel chamber up, drop your dummy round into the chamber. You'll hear the clunk of the case rim hitting the chamber edge. Press the cartridge firmly into the chamber with your thumb. Now turn the barrel so the chamber faces downward. If the cartridge falls out under its own weight, then this cartridge fits your chamber. Next load the dummy into your magazine and, placing factory rounds on top of it, load the magazine to capacity. Now flick all the rounds out of your mag with your thumb. No jambing ?? Good ! This COL can be used and, if desired, you can repeat the process using a longer COL but this should not be necessary unless you experience feeding problems at the range.

With your COL issues thus settled, you can start working up loads per an appropriate manual.

One other important point; "switch to 185g or 200g JSWC bullets", they make an awesome f**king hole .
Click to expand...

It's actually the case mouth hitting the end of the chamber, not the rim. 45 ACP is rimless and doesn't catch on the chamber mouth.

In addition to the above, once you've found the longest dummy that will pass the clunk test and the magazine test, you also need to check that you can feed that dummy from the magazine into battery and eject that dummy from the gun without it hanging up. Being able to eject an unfired round is the determining factor of max length with many guns.

I shoot 200 LSWC, 230 FMJ's and 230 LRN's. I prefer the 230's myself, big hole not withstanding. I use 6.2gn of Unique with the 230's FWIW. Can't remember the COL but it's on the longer side of things.

Have fun. Reloading for 45 ACP is pretty satisfying.
 
CeeZer said:
First - buy a Reloading Manual or two!!!! Like Speer #13, Lyman Pistol & Revolver Handbook or so.
Click to expand...

What he said +10.

I strongly believe that people new to reloading should never take their data off the internet, no matter what the site. You've invested money in the pistol and the reloading gear and have a lot riding on moving through life with a full complement of body parts. Another $25-50 for a manual published by a reputable firm is dirt cheap when you think of it.
 
I alos find that Unique doesn't measure well , keep checking your weight every so often. I've opted to go with winchester 231 and Hodgon HS-6 powders.
 
tjhaile said:
Never mind the published OAL; whatever fits your gun is correct. First, take the barrel out of your pistol. Make a dummy round that is slightly over length and gradually adjust the seating depth back until it drops freely all the way into the chamber, just like a sized empty case. If that feeds through the magazine and you don't have any trouble ejecting it, you have successfully set your OAL. Retain the dummy round for future reference.
Click to expand...

THIS is all you need to know concerning OAL, dont get hung up on numbers provided in books (as long as you dont seat too low!)

As for powder charge, a good loading manual is in orded (I like lee dies, but their load data seems off to me)
 
paininthe10 said:
I alos find that Unique doesn't measure well , keep checking your weight every so often. I've opted to go with winchester 231 and Hodgon HS-6 powders.
Click to expand...

I've used both 231 and HS-6 too pain10, but switched to Vv N320 a few years ago and will never go back. Vv meters super consistently and is remarkably clean burning. Give it a try some time. Its priced at a premium but those of us who pay it do so for good reason. New Reloaders need to be careful though as this fast powder is one of those that can be double charged without a telltale spill.
 
HKMark23 said:
I've used both 231 and HS-6 too pain10, but switched to Vv N320 a few years ago and will never go back. Vv meters super consistently and is remarkably clean burning. Give it a try some time. Its priced at a premium but those of us who pay it do so for good reason. New Reloaders need to be careful though as this fast powder is one of those that can be double charged without a telltale spill.
Click to expand...

I've heard good things about VV N320 too. I'm planning to give it a try when I see some.

Unique is great but it's true that it isn't the very best for metering.
 
So I made some dummy rounds to 1.26 and they feed fine in the gun but will not eject... In order for them to eject properly I had to make them 1.225.

Thats 0.035" more than the recomended minimum OAL.

I am loading for an older Colt Combat Commander.
 
punkrockboy said:
As a rule of thumb, when asking any question about anything to do with Lee, please disregard any of the Ben Hunchaks posts. He/she seems to think that just because he/she has been casting/reloading since the dawn of man, and was never able to use Lee equipment, that it is all junk. There are thousands of us who dont have any trouble with our Lee equipment.
When getting load data, always a good idea to crossreference from a couple of different manuals.
Click to expand...

The only trouble you seem to have is with anyone who disagrees with your choice of lee loading junk at which time you resort to name calling and defamation. This hardly speaks well of your upbringing.
 
Mr-X said:
So I made some dummy rounds to 1.26 and they feed fine in the gun but will not eject... In order for them to eject properly I had to make them 1.225.

Thats 0.035" more than the recommended minimum OAL.
Click to expand...

Keep the obvious in mind - the OAL is for the complete round and has a lot to do with fit in magazines and feeding. Ejection is - generally - just the casing.
 
The only trouble you seem to have is with anyone who disagrees with your choice of lee loading junk at which time you resort to name calling and defamation. This hardly speaks well of your upbringing.
Click to expand...
Im sure Im not the only one getting tired of your trolling. Ho-hum, you can afford more expensive equipment then everybody else, so therefore, Lee is junk.
Go find somewhere else to troll, fudd.
As to my upbringing, I had to pay for and earn everything I have, it wasn't just handed to me on a platter. It makes one appreciate it more when they have to work for it.
 
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