.45 cal GLOCKS EXPLODING

Cops usually don't shoot reloads.

He's not talking about reloads, he's talking about a given round being chambered repeatedly when going on duty. Everytime a round's chambered you're slamming it against the feedramp, and do this a lot, Tim's saying you're going to pound the round out of spec. I don't agree or disagree with this, just clarifying.
 
I read about the scoring of the cases too. Some services were using aluminum cased Blazers for training. But when you put the last round into the mag, load the mag into the pistol, and rack the slide the steel lips carve the soft aluminum up. Then if you fire a round like this with those deep lines in the Glock unsupported chamber....boom! Case was too week to contain pressure.

Brass cases scored less from the mag lips but will still fail if the same round is always used and chambered from the mag. Apparently cops are supposed to rotate the ammo around in the mags and replace any that get deep grooves cut into them.

At least that's what I read about it. I still bought a Glock 17! Too much fun:)
 
He's not talking about reloads, he's talking about a given round being chambered repeatedly when going on duty. Everytime a round's chambered you're slamming it against the feedramp, and do this a lot, Tim's saying you're going to pound the round out of spec. I don't agree or disagree with this, just clarifying.
Ah, I see what you mean.
 
Cops usually don't shoot reloads.
This is a small police force only 90 guns and the incident took place on a range during some kind of training or qualifications, remanufactured ammo MAY be used in a case like that. Definitely not for everyday carry. I was hoping someone would have more information, other than what was released by THE LEDGER (a newspaper I believe).
 
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Cops usually don't shoot reloads.

I never implied reloads.

The process is as follows: Loaded magazine is inserted into Glock pistol. Glock pistol is cocked. Trigger is never pulled, the chambered ammunition is not fired. Unfired ammunition is ejected and inserted into magazine and once again chambered, repeat this step several times and you warp the shape of the unfired cartridge thus causing a kaboom when this cartridge is finally fired.
 
I never implied reloads.

The process is as follows: Loaded magazine is inserted into Glock pistol. Glock pistol is cocked. Trigger is never pulled, the chambered ammunition is not fired. Unfired ammunition is ejected and inserted into magazine and once again chambered, repeat this step several times and you warp the shape of the unfired cartridge thus causing a kaboom when this cartridge is finally fired.
Yeah, I see your point now. But I don't think you can actually "warp" the shape of the cartridge through repeated ejections/insertions. What can happen, however, is the bullet being pushed back into the case as a result of slamming into the feedramp too many times, which could create an overpressure situation. But this is rather unlikely.
 
As an aside I believe the Portland Police Kabooms were with the .40cal not the .45acp as reported.

On the THR forum a police armourer suggested one reason for the kabooms may well be the fact that folks think the Glocks never have to be cleaned. He reported failures to feed with the Glock due to dirty chambers. Might explain the comment "poor maintenance".

I agree the .45GAP was a solution looking for a problem IMHO.

The M&P line is sweet. We shall see if, over the long term it begins to out distance Glock. Should if only for the improved grip.

Take Care

Bob
 
I never implied reloads.

The process is as follows: Loaded magazine is inserted into Glock pistol. Glock pistol is cocked. Trigger is never pulled, the chambered ammunition is not fired. Unfired ammunition is ejected and inserted into magazine and once again chambered, repeat this step several times and you warp the shape of the unfired cartridge thus causing a kaboom when this cartridge is finally fired.

This was soooo post #23 ago:rolleyes::D
 
Yeah, I see your point now. But I don't think you can actually "warp" the shape of the cartridge through repeated ejections/insertions. What can happen, however, is the bullet being pushed back into the case as a result of slamming into the feedramp too many times, which could create an overpressure situation. But this is rather unlikely.

That is a much better description of exactly what happens. I've seen the physical result of the 'warped case'/unfired ammunition as I described it but never understood it was the actual bullet getting pushed deeper into the brass. Thank-you for clarifying that.
 
Latest info:
w w w .theledger.com/article/20080314/NEWS/803140389/1134

Ammo Maker: Our Bullets Blew Up Guns
By Merissa Green
The Ledger

WINTER HAVEN | The company that manufactures the ammunition for the .45-caliber GAP Glock Model 37 is taking responsibility for guns exploding during two separate training incidents, slightly injuring a Winter Haven police officer and a former police cadet.

A spokesman for Speer Gold Dot, the manufacturer of the ammunition, said Thursday that a batch of bullets sent to the Winter Haven department was defective.

Speer Gold Dot said after the first incident in January 2007 it recalled the bullets sent to Winter Haven but that some of the ammunition remained at the department and was used when the second incident occurred earlier this year.

Winter Haven Police Chief Mark LeVine confirmed Thursday that Speer Gold Dot had recalled the bullets after the first failure. He said some of the ammunition was kept unknowingly and a bullet from that batch was involved in the second explosion.

LeVine said he's not convinced that the ammunition was the only problem and he still has concerns about the Glock handguns.

LeVine told The Ledger on Wednesday that the department was discontinuing use of the GAP Glock Model 37 because of concerns about safety.

A Glock spokesman on Wednesday said the company stood by the quality of its products, but that it hadn't been able to examine the firearms in the Winter Haven incidents and could not say whether there were any problems with them.

Glock has said that any problems with its firearms are the result of the ammunition in use or poor maintenance of the weapons.

On Thursday, a spokesman for Speer Gold Dot said the bullets, not the guns, caused the Winter Haven explosions.

"I made 500 bad cartridges and I shipped them to the Winter Haven Police Department," said Ernest Durnham, cartridge engineer for Speer.

"If I had a problem with my product, then I'll be completely honest with my customer," he said. "And I think that's why Speer Gold is the No. 1 market leader."

Durham said he reviewed quality-control records and concluded the batch the Winter Haven Police Department received should not have been sent.

The Winter Haven Police Department was the only law enforcement agency to receive the bad ammunition, he said.

"The goal of any factory is to have zero defects," Durham said. "My ammunition defect rate is less than 1 in 50 million."

In the Winter Haven incidents, police Officer Frank Scianimanico, 32, and Rodrique Jean-Louis, 20, a former cadet at the Polk Community College Kenneth C. Thompson Institute of Public Safety, suffered bruised fingers. The first occurred in January 2007 and the second in January this year.

LeVine sent a memo in February to his officers saying they could use their own weapons, as long as they met the department's requirements, until the agency buys replacements.

The Police Department will test other weapons next week.

Some agencies have reported problems with Glock products and others have said they have not encountered any problems.

The Portland, Ore., Police Department was once involved in litigation with Glock after two .45-caliber Glock Model 21 pistols exploded in the hands of two officers, Portland Police Sgt. Brian Schmautz said.

City officials there spent a lot of money to investigate the matter but have since resolved the issue with Glock and the department now uses a 9mm Glock.

"Our training division was satisfied with the transition," he said. "(Glock) accepted no liability for what occurred so we moved on."

In a separate litigation, one of the injured Portland police officers filed a multimillion-dollar lawsuit against Glock and the ammunition manufacturer. The lawsuit hasn't been resolved.

The Polk County Sheriff's Office switched to a Glock .40-caliber Model 22 pistol, and there haven't been any incidents with it, said spokeswoman Carrie Rodgers.
 
I keep saying...

In 22 years of shooting, the ONLY firearm I have EVER PERSONALLY witnessed go kaboom was a Glock. G17 3rd gen, with factory FMJ ammo.

I'm glad that my gynecologist-like digits wrap around the hockey-stick like grip of these tupperware things far too many times to like 'em!

Neal
 
On Thursday, a spokesman for Speer, the company that makes the ammo the officers were using, took responsibility for the incidents. Ernest Durham, a spokesman for Speer, says his company sent Winter Haven a defective load of ammo.

After the first gun blew, Speer asked Winter Haven to return whatever shells were left. Officers thought they did. But some members of the SWAT Team still had ammo loaded in their guns. The next time they practiced, another gun blew.

"If the ammo was collected and replaced, the second gun wouldn't have ruptured," said Durham.

The department isn't taking any chances with that model gun or the ammo it uses. It's testing out other guns.

"Pretty much, we're done with this calibre. We haven't decided if we are going to stay with Glock or go to a different manufacturer yet," said Brannan.


Sounds like Speer Loaded some +P+ Ammo...Lord only knows???

So take any auto-loader with an unsupported chamber and shoot a high-pressure load and see what happens...

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/myfox/...ale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1&sflg=1
 
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more info


WINTER HAVEN | The Police Department is ditching $38,000 worth of guns after two .45-caliber GAP Glock Model 37 pistols exploded in separate training incidents a year a part, causing minor injuries to an officer and a cadet.
$10,000

The department tried to work out a solution with Glock. The gun's Georgia-based manufacturer offered to swap out the nearly 2 1/2 -year-old guns if the department paid the company $10,000. But Police Chief Mark LeVine said that is unfair.

GLOCK MODEL 37

Caliber: .45

Magazine Capacity: 10 rounds

Overall Length: 7.32 inches

Height (Including magazine): 5.51 inches

Width: 1.18 inches

Barrel Length: 4.49 inches

Weight (loaded): 35.48 oz



PAUL JOHNSON | LEDGER PHOTOS
DETECTIVE SGT. JIM JONES of Winter Haven police examines one of the department's Glock .45 caliber G.A.P. handguns, a model that hasn't caused problems. Two of the department's Glock weapons have exploded in practice.


PARTS OF THE TRIGGER MECHANISM of a Glock handgun that blew up during target practice are shown below the trigger guard at the Winter Haven Police Department on Wednesday.

"I've been around 34 years in law enforcement, and we've seen malfunctioning with guns, but never seen it explode," Police Chief Mark LeVine said.

"When I've got two guns out of 90 mess up, something's wrong."

The department has not had any problems with the guns during use in the line of duty.

The force of the explosions came down through the bottom of the guns and blew the triggers off, LeVine said.

Police Officer Frank Scianimanico, 32, and then-cadet Rodrique Jean-Louis, 20, suffered bruised fingers in the separate incidents.

As a result, the department will try an all-metal gun as a possible replacement for the plastic Glock during weapons testing Tuesday and March 20.

LeVine issued a memo Feb. 1 to his officers saying that if anyone was uncomfortable carrying the Glock they could carry a personal weapon instead, as long as the gun meets the department's requirements.

The department tried to work out a solution with Glock. The gun's Georgia-based manufacturer offered to swap out the nearly 2 1/2-year-old guns if the department paid the company $10,000.

But LeVine said that is unfair.

"I personally question if it should cost us anything at all," the chief said.

A Glock spokesman said the company is aware of the Winter Haven incidents, but hasn't had the opportunity to examine the guns yet.

"Without looking at the pistol, there's no way for us to make a determination," said Glock spokesman Carlos Guevara.



FIRST EXPLOSION

The first incident occurred in January 2007 when a Glock exploded while being used by Jean-Louis, a former cadet the department was sponsoring at the Polk Community College Kenneth C. Thompson Institute of Public Safety, which trains prospective police officers.

Department officials dismissed the incident as the fault of bad ammunition, and so did Glock.

The second incident, the one involving Scianiamancio, was this January during training at the department's shooting range at the Winter Haven Airport.

"We had another explode in the same fashion," LeVine said. "We've only got 90 guns, and two failed. It has caused a certain amount of uneasiness."

The issue seems to be with the gun, which only Glock makes, LeVine said.

The Polk County Sheriff's Office uses a different Glock, the .40-caliber Model 22 pistol, but there haven't been any incidents with it, said spokeswoman Carrie Rodgers.

The Sheriff's Office switched last year to the Glocks after using Smith & Wessons. The Glocks cost the agency $350 per gun, compared with $560 for the .45-caliber Smith & Wessons deputies were using.

"They're easier to fire, more accurate, and they hold more ammunition," Rodgers said.

Lake Alfred Police Chief Art Bodenheimer said he would never let his officers use a Glock after he saw a video demonstration of one being partially disassembled after being jammed.

His officers use Smith & Wessons instead, because it is an all-metal gun, compared to the plastic Glock, he said.

"I'm not a Glock enthusiast," Bodenheimer said.

The Winter Haven Police Department isn't the only one that has had problem with Glocks. At least two other law enforcement agencies have reported issues.
 
Actually I think its fair to say, putting any improperly loaded ammunition into any firearm may cause a kaboom! I think it was last year, a fellow CGN'r posted pics of his revolver that had kaboomed in his hand. Not only the round he had fired but the next two over cooked off as well. He believed he had accidently doubled up on the powder.
 
Actually I think its fair to say, putting any improperly loaded ammunition into any firearm may cause a kaboom!
That is true; however, some guns are, by design, more susceptible to kabooms than others. It's not just the theoretical possibility of a kaboom that is relevant, but also its mathematical probability. A pistol with a poorly supported chamber is more likely to go kaboom when used in conjunction with improperly loaded ammunition than one with a well-supported chamber, all else being equal. In other words, good chamber support gives you a greater safety margin. That's why poor chamber support is an inherent weakness of the Glock design, no matter what Glock koolaid drinkers say.
 
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