.45 - Interesting Article

sixty9santa

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I was surfing around when I stumbled upon this article:

http://www.sightm1911.com/Care/45acp.htm

The .45 ACP Cartridge

When you take a look at the large missile-shaped cartridge of your average deer rifle, and better yet, when you put the rifle to your shoulder and fire it, a little alarm ought to go off in your head about pistol cartridges--all pistol cartridges. They are all inadequate in terms of real power. I like Clint Smith's definition that "a pistol is something you use to fight your way back to your gun." Pistols have their place due to the ease with which they can be carried and brought into action, but it's important to recognize their limitations. Notice that no fighting force in history has gone into battle armed with pistols as their primary weapons.

Some pistol cartridges are less inadequate than others, and one which comes pretty close to adequate is the .45 ACP. "ACP" stands for "Automatic Colt Pistol."

John Browning is credited with having designed the .45 ACP cartridge. Browning's .45 ACP was built specifically for the pistol that many of us regard as one of the greatest pistol designs ever, the M1911. However, I'm not at all sure that the M1911 wouldn't have been chambered for .38 Super had Browning been left to his own devices.

The man who pushed the Army into adopting the .45 caliber cartridge was Gen. John T. Thompson, the father of the Thompson submachine gun and a member of the Army Ordnance Board during the time that the M1911 pistol was being developed by John Browning and Colt. After the disastrous showing of the Army's .38 Long Colt pistols in the Philippines, Gen. Thompson was committed to the idea that the Army should be packing a real man-stopper in its handguns, a big .45 caliber bullet.

It was the cartridge tests conducted by Thompson and Major Louis Anatole LaGarde of the Medical Corps in 1904 at the Nelson Morris Company Union Stockyards in Chicago that resulted in the adoption of the .45 caliber as the official U.S. Army handgun cartridge. They tested various calibers on live cattle, deer, and human cadavers to determine the best load. From these tests it was determined that the .45 was the most effective cartridge for a handgun, but with reservations. In their report, they state:

"the Board was of the opinion that a bullet, which will have the shock effect and stopping effect at short ranges necessary for a military pistol or revolver, should have a caliber not less than .45". But they also said, "...soldiers armed with pistols or revolvers should be drilled unremittingly in the accuracy of fire" because most of the human body offered "no hope of stopping an adversary by shock or other immediate results when hit."

In response to the Ordnance Board’s specification, Browning designed the .45 ACP for the pistol he was submitting to the board. Browning’s first loading was a 200 grain bullet running at 900 feet per second, but the Army wanted a larger bullet. Browning responded with the loading we have today, a 230 grain bullet with a muzzle velocity of 830 feet per second.



Stopping Power

It is interesting to observe that we are still arguing this basic question of terminal ballistics which was articulated by Thompson in 1904. The tag-team wrestling match in the terminal ballistics field is currently between Ed Sanow and Evan Marshall in the "small and fast" corner, and Dr. Martin Fackler (backed up by Thompson and LaGarde) in the "big and slow" corner. This discussion quickly degenerates into a lot of arcane mumbles about temporary and permanent crush cavities, energy transfer, hydrostatic shock, and the Miami FBI shoot-out. It's interesting if you're a physicist or a forensic pathologist, but it gets kind of academic for the rest of us. "Small and fast" works really well with high-powered rifles when their small 80 grain bullets are traveling at 4000 feet per second, but hand gun cartridges don't operate at those energy levels. The best of the small and fast pistol rounds is the 125 grain .357 Magnum which has enjoyed an impressive service record in the "one shot stop" statistics. It has also suffered some spectacular failures in which the bad guy was shot multiple times center of mass and remained on his feet.

Evan Marshall and Ed Sanow have worked up a set of statistics based on results of actual shootings in which one shot was fired into the torso of the attacker stopping the assault, and from these studies they have developed percentage ratings for "one shot stops" for cartridges from .22 to 12 gauge. The Marshall and Sanow numbers show a tendency for small and fast cartridges to do somewhat better than large and slow ones, i.e., .380's do slightly better than .38 Specials from 2" barrels and .357 Magnums do a percentage or so better than the .45 ACP. Understand that controversy still rages about the Marshall and Sanow study, particularly about their methods, sources of data, and the shootings they chose to exclude. Nevertheless, it's an interesting study.

Jim Higginbotham, a 30-year law enforcement veteran and trainer writes the following on the subject of pistol cartridges and failures to stop:

While I have come across some lethal encounters that took a lot of rounds to settle they mostly were the result of either poor hits (or complete misses) or lack of penetration. Nearly all of the high round count cases I have reviewed involved 9mms, .38s, .357’s or smaller calibers. This is not to say they do not occur with major caliber rounds. It is to say I have been collecting data for 30 years and have not encountered many cases in which multiple hits (more than three as two or three shots are a fairly normal reflex action) from major caliber cartridges to the center of the chest have not been sufficient, - the single exception being a case involving the .41 Magnum loaded with JSP bullets which did not expand - they did penetrate - it took five hits center mass to stop the attacker - and I have not encountered any with the .45, even with Ball. I have encountered several with 5, 6 or even more hits to the center of the chest with .38, .357, 9mm and .223 rifle rounds failing to stop. Almost every one could be traced to lack of penetration with a couple of exceptions that hit the heart but just did not cause enough damage to be effective quickly. Note I am not talking about "torso" hits. There is a lot of area in the torso in which a hit will seldom produce rapid incapacitation even if hit by a 12 ga. slug or a 30-06 - we simply cannot count such data if we are going to learn anything.

My purpose here is not to argue Fackler versus Marshall and Sanow because that's a book in itself. What is important in all of this is that regardless of which philosophy you choose to accept as true, the .45 ACP comes out well--at or near the top of the effectiveness ratings for both schools of thought.

Having established the almost universal agreement that the .45 ACP is an acceptable personal defense cartridge (kind of like proving the ocean is wet), are there negatives? Sure there are. For one thing, the .45 ACP is big and heavy. The same characteristic that makes it so admired by the big hole school also makes it heavy to carry and bulky, resulting in fewer rounds being available in compact handguns. A fully loaded Thompson submachine gun is fairly heavy if you have to lug it around through a hot jungle all day. Some people find the recoil of the .45 ACP punishing although I'm not one of them (I actually prefer the recoil of the .45 ACP over the recoil of the 9mm). The penetration of the .45 ACP 230-grain FMJ bullet is 26" in ballistic gelatin, making it problematic and dangerous as a personal defense load. The threat of over-penetration with the military round necessitates the use of hollow points for LEO and civilian PDW applications. Some of the older 1911 pistols don't like hollow point bullets very well and have to be throated and have their feed ramps polished for reliability. And last, there is the cost. The .45 ACP is expensive as pistol cartridges go, often $3-$4 per box more than 9mm or .38 Special.



Specifications

The specs and behavior of this cartridge are central to its success. Even people who don't like the 1911-pattern pistol often seek other systems to launch the .45 ACP and every major gun maker builds pistols around the cartridge. Smith and Wesson even builds a revolver for it.

Specifications of the original military loading of the .45 ACP

Dimensions_______Minimum___Maximum
Overall Length_____1.256"______1.266"
Bullet Length_______.657"______.667"
Bullet Diameter_____.451"______.451"
Case Head________.4718"______.4734
Case Mouth_______.4672"_____.4732" (.4730" standard)
Case Length_______.892"_______.898"



Ballistics
Bullet Weight 230 grain (14.9 grams)
Bullet Type FMJ
Ballistic Coefficient .195
Muzzle Velocity 830 feet per second
Energy at 25 yards 350 foot-pounds
Effective Range 100 yards
Mid-Range Trajectory 1.6 @ 50 yards


Exterior ballistics

Maximum range In pistol________1,600 yards.
In submachine gun_____________1,700 yards.
Pressure_____________________4,000 pounds per square inch.
Velocity, Pistol @ 25.5 feet_______820 feet per second.
@ Muzzle_____________________825 feet per second.
Velocity, Sub. Gun @ 25.5 feet____885 feet per second.
@ muzzle,_____________________990 feet per second.
Muzzle energy_________________329 foot-pounds Ball, pistol.
_____________________________383 foot-pounds in submachine gun.



Accuracy with muscle test
mean variations for several targets

Range______Mean Radii
Yards______Inches
25_________0.86
50_________1.36
75_________2.24


Penetration in white pine

Range_____Depth
Yards_____Inches
25________6.0
100_______5.5
250_______4.0

The penetration in moist loam at 25 yards is about 10 inches. The penetration in dry sand at 25 yards is about 8 inches.

Table of fire

Range______Time of flight_________Drop_________Deflection due
______________________________________________to drift*
Yards________Seconds__________Inches___________Inches
10___________0.037_____________0.3_______________0.1
20____________.75______________1.1_______________0.2
30____________.113_____________2.4_______________0.3
40____________.151_____________4.4_______________0.4
60____________.229_____________9.9_______________0.8
80 ___________.308_____________18________________1.3
100___________.388_____________28________________2.0

* Drift id to the left. Based on a velocity of 800 feet per second, 25 feet from muzzle.

One of the goals of my life to which I am committed to making a reality is to render all of this ballistic speculation academic by never having to shoot anybody. Much of my time with a handgun is spent doing fun stuff like target shooting and IDPA matches. The .45 is a fun gun and cartridge to shoot. It’s hard for me to imagine myself shooting a match with a DA/SA "crunchenticker" (as Col. Cooper likes to call them). I could if I had to, but I don’t have to so I don’t.

You often hear it said that the 1911-pattern .45 ACP is "an easy gun to shoot well." Experience and the testimony of generations of shooters bears this out. Although this ease in doing well is generally attributed to the properties of the pistol, particularly the trigger, it's my opinion that the .45 ACP cartridge contributes to the superlative performance of the handgun. The .45 ACP 230g FMJ is possessed of great inherent accuracy. With the excellent trigger and this load, you can shoot ragged holes all day.

Related Links

Background Information on the United States Pistol Caliber .45 M1911 - Development history of the M1911 .45 Caliber Automatic Pistol including the Thompson-LaGarde cadaver tests of 1904

.45 Auto Cartridge Development - Stefano Mattioli's article on the early development of the .45 ACP cartridge. Includes specs and drawings of these early cartridges such as WRA 1904.
 
They still do, but not on anything live. Scary aint it?
As long as you don't donate your body to "science", your body should be fine.
 
sixty9santa said:
LMAO :lol:
Notice that no fighting force in history has gone into battle armed with pistols as their primary weapons
what about Cavalry in the 1800's.

Well, it may not have been their primary issued weapon,but at the close quarters that most Cavalry engagements were fought the pistol became the primary used weapon,it could out shoot rifles [reload time,that is] and outreach sabres, and could be used as club once empted.
 
Almost all was written on the .45 ACP and is still tested with new powder andd bullet. If for any reason you do not think it is enough, use modern brass ( 45 Super and let it fly ) The .45 ACP is the most versatile caliber from target ( low 700 FPS ) to high performance ( 1350 FPS).

What you found is old stuff that was published in the 70's early 80's. :mrgreen:
 
look at an article here on stopping power.

http://www.gunblast.com/RKCampbell_StoppingPower.htm

in response to the original message and the failure of 125 jhp ammo (357), the 45 has had its failures too.

i have read that on one occasion, a person was shot seven times with the .45 and made his way to the hospital.

From the above website:

"On another occasion I suffered a failure to stop with a much vaunted .45 ACP 200 grain JHP very much in the vogue in the early 1980s, the darling of gunwriters. It penetrated two inches and expanded to a full one inch. Nice but ineffective. The second round produced compliance.

I observed the effect of the .357 Magnum 125 grain JHP once over the top of my own sights. The effect was gruesome. A solid hit that produced a severe blood flow AND dramatic effect from the rear, including lung tissue thrown perhaps three feet"

apparently some police agencies have been going to 357 sig because, while the .45 is a good stopper, the old 357's had a "hit by lightning effect" on the person being shot.

not to dump on the .45, because i have one and like it, just want to give this topic a little balance. to say .45 is better than a 357 is stretching it, better than a 9mm or 38 spcl i agree, but my own opinion is that either a .45 or 357 is going to be about as good as it gets.
 
In all those studies, they found that the BEST stopper was the 125 grains .357 load.
Winchester load the 9X23 MM 125 grains bullet at the same speed to duplicaye that performance.
Note that the Corbon .45 ACP and Magtech loads are never included in those stopping studies...even if many USA law agency use them..
 
In all what studies and who is "they"?

This notion of which is the "BEST stopper" is a subjective side issue.

The primary factor in shoot out situations is bullet placement.

You die from severe damage to the nervous system Head/spine or by falling blood pressure due to loss of blood. Hit the head or the heart and the fight ends the former quicker than the latter.

Stay Safe
 
Canuck44 said:
In all what studies and who is "they"?

This notion of which is the "BEST stopper" is a subjective side issue.

The primary factor in shoot out situations is bullet placement.

You die from severe damage to the nervous system Head/spine or by falling blood pressure due to loss of blood. Hit the head or the heart and the fight ends the former quicker than the latter.

Stay Safe

They ? the FBI and most ammo company. Evan Marshal is another one. Do a seach on the Internet and you will find all kind of studies.

As for the .357/125 grains it is strait out of Winchester/ FBI study. ( You can read a reference to it in Win ammo brochure under 9X23)

Bullet placement is the key but a bullet entering the body will not automatically go strait. In real world, people wear clothes. I am far from following this topic and studies but they were the rage in 1985 when the US Army replaced the .45 ACP with a 9 mm. Then came the FBI 10MM and thereafter the 40 S&W. So much was written about it. On thing remained : the .357 was always in the top stopper.
 
Janeau said:
Canuck44 said:
In all what studies and who is "they"?

This notion of which is the "BEST stopper" is a subjective side issue.

The primary factor in shoot out situations is bullet placement.

You die from severe damage to the nervous system Head/spine or by falling blood pressure due to loss of blood. Hit the head or the heart and the fight ends the former quicker than the latter.

Stay Safe

They ? the FBI and most ammo company. Evan Marshal is another one. Do a seach on the Internet and you will find all kind of studies.

As for the .357/125 grains it is strait out of Winchester/ FBI study. ( You can read a reference to it in Win ammo brochure under 9X23)

Bullet placement is the key but a bullet entering the body will not automatically go strait. In real world, people wear clothes. I am far from following this topic and studies but they were the rage in 1985 when the US Army replaced the .45 ACP with a 9 mm. Then came the FBI 10MM and thereafter the 40 S&W. So much was written about it. On thing remained : the .357 was always in the top stopper.

.357 stopping power was never in doubt. Averyone knows the .357 or .44 Magnum "flying ashtray" is a mega man-stopper. The problem was that officers wanted more rounds than the 6 revolvers could offer at the time.

That being said, .45 is no slouch either. When the US Army adopted the .45ACP round in 1911, it first undertook a series of tests to determine relative stopping power on a caliber basis. They were able to determine of all projectile sizes, .45 had the greatest killing potential for it's diameter while still retaining a light ammo burden for the soldier.

Back then, these tests were conducted on live cattle.

Of course, the .357 hadn;t been invented yet but the 9mm was already around in the Luger platform. The US Army found the 9mm and .30 Luger inadequate and even requested a .45 Luger be built (it was). Of course the bullets tested for the 9mm and .30 Luger were a far cry from the bullets selection available now. All this proved useless semantics though as the 9mm and .30 Luger seemed more than adequate in the trenches of WW1 :shock: And then later the same US army reversed themselves and adopted the 9mm M9... :roll:

Military dogma has also changed. Emphasis is placed on wounding, not killing and also on light ammo with lots of volume of fire over heavy ammo and accurate shooting.

All this is moot though as you really ought not to have set down your rifle in the first place... :lol:
 
Re: .45ACP - Interesting Article

sixty9santa said:
I like Clint Smith's definition that "a pistol is something you use to fight your way back to your gun."

I thought it was Jeff Cooper that said that. "A pistol is something you use to fight your way back to the rifle you should have never put down."

Anyway, to further muddy the waters, I recall reading that before the turn of the last century the British Army had determined that the best man-stopper for a low velocity pistol cartridge was a .40 cal or better lead flat nose bullet of more than 200 grains. The faster the better, up to about 900fps, but the velocity range in which the bullet could be effective was very wide. The research included field reports, anecdotal evidence, and testing by an armed forces that at the time had more experience on more and more varied fronts than any other in history. This lead to the adoption of the .455 Webley, and, for the civillian market, a large number of snub nose .44 caliber revolvers that were generally reffered to as "Bulldogs" (where the .44 special Charter Arms Bulldog got it's name).

Some one better versed in firearms history can correct any errors that I have made, but this is an arguement that has been started and ended a hundred times in the last 100 years.
 
spi - Yes you have it correct. The British studies had more effect on the US Army's decision to go with the .45acp than most would admit as it was the British who were the world power at the time.

Stay Safe
 
The US Army went back to .45 caliber after the Philipine insurection. They were using .38 caliber and found it innadequate to stop drugged Moros. They got all their 45 Colt caliber guns out of the armory and back to service. After this episode, the US Army decided to go stick with the .45 caliber and finally settle on the .45 ACP on the new 1911 gun. Nothing to do with the Brits study and experience.

Get yourself a book the 1911 history. It is all there.
 
Janeau - not according to Gen. Hatcher who was head of the US ordnance branch at one point. In fact the British studies played a part in the decision. Have a book on the 1911 and also the history of cartridges and there development. Not sure why you are so anal retentive or is that a PITA. I am sure you will clarify that for me as well.

Stay Safe
 
Janeau said:
The US Army went back to .45 caliber after the Philipine insurection. They were using .38 caliber and found it innadequate to stop drugged Moros. They got all their 45 Colt caliber guns out of the armory and back to service. After this episode, the US Army decided to go stick with the .45 caliber and finally settle on the .45 ACP on the new 1911 gun. Nothing to do with the Brits study and experience.

Get yourself a book the 1911 history. It is all there.

Are you always this confrontational?

The US army selected in 1911 a .451" rimless cartridge pushing a 230 grain copper jacketed bullet at 850fps. The original round that passed the testing fired a 200 grain (13 g) bullet at 900 ft/s (275 m/s), but was later changed to a 230 grain (15 g) bullet at about 850 ft/s (260 m/s). This works out to around 400 ft.lbs of energy.

The old 45Colt was a rimmed cartridge loaded with 255-grain .454" cast lead bullet over black powder delivering 400 ft·lbs (542 J) of muzzle energy out of a virtually unreloadable (in combat conditions) revolver.

Performance wise they are very different rounds, despite the similarities in energy figures. But all that aside, when tested on live cattle the .45ACP was a more devastating round than the old .45LC round, probably due to the copper jacket allowing deeper penetration and the higher ballistic coefficient of the new round. The new round could just have easily bee a .455 or a .50 or whatever had the testing born out those results. It was hardly a case of the ordnance general declaring "these .38's are junk, break out the 45's! .45 is the only caliber henceforth for all US army guns!"
 
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