.45 not seating properly

dearslayer

dearslayer

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Struggling a little to figure what the heck to do to seat these cast boolits. With maximum flare using the Lee powder through die it seems the shape of the top of the boolit is making it lean in the case when trying to seat them. I backed out the adjustment to try a little at a time at that made the die scrape the powder coat as soon as it went in the die. When seating to proper depth in one shot the boolit overlaps the case on one side. What the heck am I doing wrong.
 

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I took my seating die apart and put it in a lathe and drilled it so the die contacted the SWC shoulder only and not the nose of the bullet. The reason that I did it was for more centred bullet seating and improved accuracy and it achieved that, I use a similar bullet and have been using powder coat and sizing after coating. I have not encountered any off centre seating or shaving.
 
Standardvel said:
I took my seating die apart and put it in a lathe and drilled it so the die contacted the SWC shoulder only and not the nose of the bullet. The reason that I did it was for more centred bullet seating and improved accuracy and it achieved that, I use a similar bullet and have been using powder coat and sizing after coating. I have not encountered any off centre seating or shaving.
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That sounds like a great idea. How would it work with other shaped bullets ? I sometimes used copper plated round nose as well. I did notice on the Lee website that they will do a custom seater if you send in the particular bullet but I assume that would be in the US.
 
Has the powder coating enlarged the diameter so it is a bit too large?

NOE makes expanders that fit into the Lee expanders die body in various two step diameters.
The second step in the die opens the neck a bit more so the bullet can enter the case easily and straight.

Many times, I put a dab of epoxy in the cavity of the seating stem and let it harden around the nose of a properly aligned bullet.
After it sets, the bullet will be properly aligned during seating.
 
Most Lee seating dies have a floating piece that contacts the bullet. For a 45acp the most common bullet is a round nose so that's probably what they supply. It would be pretty simple for someone with a lathe to make that part with different profiles for different bullets.

I have 7-8 for a belling die to compress powder or work like a Lyman M expander.
 
In your first pic is that how far into the case the bullet drops before you actually start to seat it? If so I think the problem may be that you are putting too much flare on the case mouth. if the bullet drops that far in even if it is only slightly off centre it is going to be off true enough to scrape against one side of the case mouth.

While I generally like Lee dies i switched out most of my bullet seating dies to Hornadys because they have a sliding sleeve that aligns the bullet before it contacts the seating stem, virtually guaranteeing that the buillets will be seated straight.
 
In my opinion it looks like the crimp is happening before the bullet is fully seated or the flare isn't open enough. Set the crimp without a bullet to ensure you have it right. Then you set the bullet seating depth according to your guns requirements. Do you PC twice? It looks thick.
 
ted_dent said:
In your first pic is that how far into the case the bullet drops before you actually start to seat it? If so I think the problem may be that you are putting too much flare on the case mouth. if the bullet drops that far in even if it is only slightly off centre it is going to be off true enough to scrape against one side of the case mouth.

While I generally like Lee dies i switched out most of my bullet seating dies to Hornadys because they have a sliding sleeve that aligns the bullet before it contacts the seating stem, virtually guaranteeing that the buillets will be seated straight.
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Oh heck no. I backed the adjustment way out just to see how they were being seated and to see if the PC was being scraped off. I believe the flare isn't enough even though it's at max. I may need to switch to a different seat die but I'm gonna see if my friend can make the flare powder through part and also the boolit seat stem.
 
tigrr said:
In my opinion it looks like the crimp is happening before the bullet is fully seated or the flare isn't open enough. Set the crimp without a bullet to ensure you have it right. Then you set the bullet seating depth according to your guns requirements. Do you PC twice? It looks thick.
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How do I adjust the seating die so it doesn't crimp? It's adjusted as per the instructions and they seat deep enough to pass the plunk test. I then crimp separately with the Lee factory crimp die. I don't normally powder coat twice and a be honest I don't remember if I did with this particular powder. It is possible but I just don't remember but I don't think so.
 
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dearslayer said:
Oh heck no. I backed the adjustment way out just to see how they were being seated and to see if the PC was being scraped off. I believe the flare isn't enough even though it's at max. I may need to switch to a different seat die but I'm gonna see if my friend can make the flare powder through part and also the boolit seat stem.
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Can you post a pic of how far the bullet drops into the case before you seat it. The reason I ask is that if the flare is too great it gives more leeway for the bullet to deviate from perfectly vertical. Aside from the fact that excessive flaring works the brass harder and causes premature neck splits, the greater the flare the harder it is to keep the bullet true in the case before you attempt to seat it. I would think that at most the bullet doesn't have to drop into the case more than about .125" and probably even a little less.
 
ted_dent said:
Can you post a pic of how far the bullet drops into the case before you seat it. The reason I ask is that if the flare is too great it gives more leeway for the bullet to deviate from perfectly vertical. Aside from the fact that excessive flaring works the brass harder and causes premature neck splits, the greater the flare the harder it is to keep the bullet true in the case before you attempt to seat it. I would think that at most the bullet doesn't have to drop into the case more than about .125" and probably even a little less.
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Unfortunately I can't right now. I just last night gave both the powder through die and the seating die to a friend of mine so he can make another bushing for the flare and another seating stem to better fit the type of boolit I was using. Said it would be a couple days and he'd have it done. This kind of thing intrigues him and I bet he has it back to me sooner than later. I never thought about it having too much flare but what your saying does make sense come to think of it. I may have increased the flare thinking it would be easier to seat the boolit and its having the opposite effect. I've loaded these before and I don't recall having this many issues. As soon as I get them back I'll let you know the results.
 
dearslayer said:
Unfortunately I can't right now. I just last night gave both the powder through die and the seating die to a friend of mine so he can make another bushing for the flare and another seating stem to better fit the type of boolit I was using. Said it would be a couple days and he'd have it done. This kind of thing intrigues him and I bet he has it back to me sooner than later. I never thought about it having too much flare but what your saying does make sense come to think of it. I may have increased the flare thinking it would be easier to seat the boolit and its having the opposite effect. I've loaded these before and I don't recall having this many issues. As soon as I get them back I'll let you know the results.
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The reason I asked is because I have reloaded that very same design of 45 bullet with Lee dies and never had a problem with off centre/tilting bullets. I did eventually switch to Hornady seating dies because of the floating sleeve that automatically aligns the bullet with the die. There was nothing wrong with the Lee seater die per se but it did require that you made extra effort to be sure the bullet was as vertical as possible to avoid the type of problems you are having.

The Hornady design is a little more idiot proof in preventing that issue and I need all the help I can get. I should point out that except for some high end seater dies like the Redding match dies other die brands like RCBS and Lyman require the same degree of care in aligning the bullet befopre seating as the Lee dies do. The Hornady design is so simple and ingenious that I'm not sure why the other companies haven't copied it (unless it's patent thing). Ironically, however, I don't like the Hornady expander dies which I find awkward for adjusting the flare (you have to move the entire die up or down, not just the expander stem).
 
So my friend made new seating stem to better fit the boolit. It allows the nose of the boolit to go into a hollow section while the outer part of the stem bares evenly on the larger radius. Seems to work better. I also ever so lightly chamfered the case mouth to slightly remove the sharp edge to prevent it from cutting into the boolit. All in all it seems to produce better results.
 
I have tried a couple of different coated bullets in my .45 and .40 and have experienced the coating rolling off of the lead during seating (and yes, I opened up the mouth like a funnel), the rolled material caused feeding issues, and they stank when shot. One of the biggest issues I think is inconsistent thickness of the coating, when measuring these (factory) bullets, the diameters were all bigger than specified by anywhere from .001 to .006 ". Bullets were never round either. I don't recall one company but the other was X-Metal, and their products were dropped by dealers shortly there after. I guess that many felt the same as there are few commercial bullets available with powder coat presently. BTW, sizing after coating does not work as the coating slips off during the process.
 
If the coating "slides off" you are definitely not getting proper adhesion. Only time I've had that was with some wax contamination but might also need more heat or time in the bake.

If the coating is being scraped through in sizing it would be roughness in the sizer.

Inconsistent diameter is why one sizes after coating and also why coated bullets just don't usually have the same quality as good jacketed or plain cast bullets.
 
The coating on all my powder coated projectiles usually pass the hammer test however I don't remember trying this last batch. I will check it. I've taken the seating stem out and cleaned both it and the crimp die to no avail.
 
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