.45 vs 9mm - The debate is over, say the Experts

Basically, the caliber is irrelevant, or more accurately, of all the variables, it is the least relevant. The common handgun bullets all cause similar wounds, to the point that they are indistinguishable from each other. Far more important variables include shot placement, what organs or structures are injured, and psychological makeup of the target.
 
It costs me the same (or even less in some cases) to shoot 45ACP as it does to shoot 9. I shoot more 45 because I find the cartridge to be a more fun and enjoyable one to shoot.
 
i may be a newbie,but i'm failing to see how this issue has any relevance whatsoever to a canadian restricted gun owner.

In the same way we and other Internet groups discuss super cars and their capabilities: no one is going to drive 300 kph on our highways either, but we can all compare Veyrons to MacLarens.
 
Let's face it - the only advantage that .45ACP has to an average Canadian is how much easier it is to see the holes in the paper. I'll take cheaper ammo every time.

^This

Although, I have some Wolf .45 SWC that makes nice big round holes in the paper.....much easier for these aging eyes to see than 9 ;)

Plus, I like shooting the 1911 I have more than most of my 9mm's
 
9x19mm has a considerable advantage in JHP bullet development IMO.

Only a handful of .45 ACP loads seem to be able to perform more than marginally better than the top 9x19 loads.

It's possible to get more performance out of the .45 {see the Lehigh Maximum Expansion HP for example, which expands to a 1.31 inches} but the majority of .45 loads only seem to perform marginally better than the best 9x19 stuff.
 
I own both in pistols, and love 'em both -- especially .45 in a 1911 ^:p

For fun I also shoot them both in carbines -- the 45 doesn't seem to benefit a whole lot from the longer barrel but the 9 does a little.
The higher pressure of the 9 lets it pick up a bit more velocity/ shoot flatter. Maybe there's another advantage of the 9mm, for those with pistol-caliber carbines.
 
Although, I have some Wolf .45 SWC that makes nice big round holes in the paper.....much easier for these aging eyes to see than 9 ;)

Plus, I like shooting the 1911 I have more than most of my 9mm's

I picked up some of the Wolf SWCs. Cost me $187/500. A bit smokey but puts nice clean holes in paper targets.
No issues in my 625….so they feed ok in a semi?
 
Same sized projectile, but 9mm is usually double the velocity of .38 special, and don't even think of .38 S&W... Twice the velocity means far more impact.

The math is simple..........

Energy = Mass X Velocity^2

Given the Bullet mass is the same (for .38 SW and 9mm), there would be FOUR times the energy if you double the velocity.

The math easily explains why a car crash at 100 Km/H is a LOT more serious than 50 Km/H. DOUBLE the velocity means FOUR times the energy for the same mass.

Cheers!

B
 
The conflict was resolved back in the 80's, when the .40 S&W was developed for the FBI ;)

The advance in JHP bullet design, has recently prompted the FBI go back to 9mm.

That same JHP bullet design, is available in .40S&W, so better then, is still better now, I would think.

Recoil, thus follow up shots, appear to be the deciding factor. I fully respect the decision of those who's azzes are on the line!!
 
Let's face it - the only advantage that .45ACP has to an average Canadian is how much easier it is to see the holes in the paper. I'll take cheaper ammo every time.

You lnow what? I agree :)

I'm not choosing 45 for self defense. I'm never going to shoot anything living with it. For SD games like idpa/odpl or ipsc i'd choose a 9mm. I just like the way the 45 recoils. A 1911 in 45 fits me like no other gun. I enjoy shooting it the most. I also reload so cost difference isn't too bad.
 
Very situational dependent. If yer worried about only having 10 round, carry spare mags. Pretty sure the .45 P+ is a showstopper on the first hit, even if it is not a vital hit.
 
If the debate was over we wouldn't still be talking about it.

Regardless if it is for self defense or putting holes in paper shooting a platform and caliber combination that gives you confidence is the important factor.
For most of Canadian shooters anything more than a .22 is a waste.

We could change all our shooting sports to accommodate the .22 LR pistol.

If I feel like shooting my .45, 9mm, .40 or .44 mag it's because thats what makes me happy in the moment.

And debating the merits of 9mm vs .45 or Harley vs Honda is part of the enjoyment.

So may the debate never end
 
...........and 9mm won


By Larry Vickers:

Recently Bill Wilson of Wilson Combat fame sent around a survey to many notable people in the firearms industry - many M4C members will recognize instantly several on the survey such as myself, Hackathorn and Rob Leatham. The question was simple; if you had to choose one pistol caliber for self defense and range use what would it be. The results spoke volumes-9mm Para won in a landslide. Almost unanimously.

Assuming you had to buy your own pistol and ammunition (type of your choice) for combined self-defense and self-defense range training use, which caliber would you choose, 9x19mm Parabellum, .357 Sig, .38 super, .40 S&W, 10mm or .45 ACP ?

I surveyed the following and their answer:


BJ Norris 9mm

Bill Rogers 9mm

Bill Wilson 9mm

David Bahde 9mm

Ernest Langdon 9mm

Frank Proctor 9mm

Ken Hackathorn 9mm

Larry Vickers 9mm

Mike Seeklander 9mm

Paul Markel 9mm

Paul Howe 9mm

Paul Buffoni 9mm

Rob Haught .45

Rob Leatham .40

Super Dave Harrington 9mm


It was no surprise to me; I've been preaching the benefits of 9mm for quite awhile now and I'm not alone. 9mm pistols hold a lot of bullets and are easy to shoot. There are many good models to choose from. Practice Ammo is easy to get and fairly cheap. And most importantly some of the self defense loads on the market are very effective. I can't say I was surprised by this development at all.

In fact, I saw it coming years ago. One thing I had been doing for years is asking LE officers who carry 9mm what specific load they use and what performance has it provided on the job. Without exception anytime officers were carrying the Winchester Ranger 127 grain +P+ or the Speer Gold Dot they had nothing but good things to say. In fact one officer told me they had yet to have a bad guy survive who they had shot with the Ranger 127 gr +P+. To me when the FBI announced a switch back to 9mm that simply confirmed what I already knew. We live in a 9mm world and that's not changing anytime soon.

An exception to that in my opinion would be if you are stuck for whatever reason to carrying ball Ammo only. At that point all the calibers are just gonna poke a hole in the bad guy and a bigger hole is better than a smaller one so .45 ACP rules. That leaves .40 S&W out in the cold in my opinion and that trend is seen everywhere now as the .40 has quickly become the black sheep of the whole Ammo debate. The guns are harder to shoot, hold less bullets and are no more effective on the street than 9mm. In fact some have proven to be problematic for many years (Glock 22) when there 9mm counterparts are gold standards for dependability and reliability (Glock 17).

So that's the way I see it; 9mm is in, .40 is out, and .45 if needed. Be safe, keep shooting, LAV out.


Larry Vickers
Master Sergeant ( Retired )
US Army SOF Combat Veteran



http://us1.campaign-archive2.com/?u=7b1a9382c490b04b227c7c2b9&id=44b9b11231&e=05485b2508

Not surprising about the 9 selection, however what is that someone would even consider the trendy 40.
 
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