450/400 nitro

Pretty much a double gun cartridge. Ruger is the only game in town.

For me the cost of .450/400 vs .405 Win cartridges and components is not worth it right now. I can get .405 ammo for less than half the price of .450/400 and energy wise I am losing 1000ft/lbs, but that is mostly due to a lighter bullt, in the No.1 you could probably get fairly similar performance if you wanted too.
 
Ruger #1 or $12,000.00 double is it, unless you want to go to the Sharps calibers like my 45-110 or 45-120 which will give you 458 ballistics and more. In rimless CZ have quite a large big bore line up, right up to the 505 Gibbs.

Turkeyslayer.....The 405 is not even in the same league as the 450/400 and that 1000 ft/lbs you seem to be able to disregard, is the reason. It's like saying you could just substitute a 30-06 for a 375 H&H there's only 1000 ft/lbs difference.
 
I'd have to agree with c-fbmi that 1,000 ft/lbs is nothing to just slough off - we're not talking another conversation about the practical difference between a .308 win and 30-06 springfield here.

Another thing to keep in mind if a fellow wants similar performance to a 450/400, but isn't stuck on that exact cartridge; a handloaded 45-70 will do 405gr @ 2000 fps (not from a short guide gun mind you), which is kind of in the ballpark. Not the "cool factor" of the NE cartridge however, but still respectable.
 
c-fbmi said:
Ruger #1 or $12,000.00 double is it, unless you want to go to the Sharps calibers like my 45-110 or 45-120 which will give you 458 ballistics and more. In rimless CZ have quite a large big bore line up, right up to the 505 Gibbs.

Turkeyslayer.....The 405 is not even in the same league as the 450/400 and that 1000 ft/lbs you seem to be able to disregard, is the reason. It's like saying you could just substitute a 30-06 for a 375 H&H there's only 1000 ft/lbs difference.
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I have not killed much big game at all, but if you want something for north america you don't need the .450/400, you are privileged to be able to afford whatever you want, I am unfortunately not so will settle for second best for economy. I can shoot it 3 times as much, kicks less and will kill anything I will ever hunt.

I just like the .405, it's a .40 Lite if you will. In a perfect world I'd have both. If I can only have one it will be the .405.
 
.450/400 400 grain DGX
Test Barrel (24") Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 200 300
2050/3732 1820/2941 1608/2298 1420/1791

.405 300 grain Softpoint
Test Barrel (24") Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 200 300
2200/3224 1890/2379 1610/1727 1370/1250

You can run 400 gr Solids at 1900fps in the .405

9.3x62 286 Interlock (For Comparison)
Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
2360/3537 2155/2950 1961/2442 1778/2008 1608/1642 1453/1340

500 ft/lbs Difference, All theoretical but something to think about.
 
c-fbmi said:
Ruger #1 or $12,000.00 double is it, unless you want to go to the Sharps calibers like my 45-110 or 45-120 which will give you 458 ballistics and more. In rimless CZ have quite a large big bore line up, right up to the 505 Gibbs.

Turkeyslayer.....The 405 is not even in the same league as the 450/400 and that 1000 ft/lbs you seem to be able to disregard, is the reason. It's like saying you could just substitute a 30-06 for a 375 H&H there's only 1000 ft/lbs difference.
Click to expand...

Actually, there are some relatively inexpensive (well, OK, that's "relative" to really expensive) double options out there. You can get a Sabatti for around $5,700, and based on what I'm hearing they've stopped trying to regulate the barrels by grinding and are now doing it properly. For a little more, you can find a Merkel for around $7,500 on sale over at Wolverine. I quite appreciate that these are still very pricey guns by any normal person's standards, but for someone interested in getting a double in a Nitro Express chambering, it's worth knowing that you can get into the game with a decent rifle somewhere in the $6K - $8K range. I wish the Merkels were that cheap when I bought mine!

As for the 405 vs 450/400, Douglas knows whereof he speaks. Shoot both, then try to say they're close to the same thing. Your shoulder will know the difference very quickly, particularly if you load the 450/400 to its proper historical velocity of 2150 fps. For what it's worth, my Merkel will go as high as 2250 fps with absolutely no signs of excess pressure -- but not surprisingly, it regulates right at the 2140 - 2150 fps mark.
 
I'd love a merkel double but that's not in the plans/budget right now. 1000ftlbs is a big difference and a 300gr 405 is not in the same level of performance as a 400gr from the 450/400 imo. I have a 4570 already. To me the 405w is a step down in performance not up but I appreciate your reasoning with respect to cheaper shooting. Looks like the ruger it will be. To bad they don't come colour case hardened
 
And if you get one,you can also do some cheap practice/plinking using Trail Boss powder and .41 Mag. pistol bullets @ 1750fps. Want a load more suited to N/A? The 300gr. .405 Win. bullet (.411) can be moderately and safely loaded to run at approx. 2550fps. I bought mine for Africa but have done a lot of shooting and some hunting in BC with it (1 Bison/1 BT).
 
brybenn said:
As curious as I m to know how much that will cost I'm kinda scared to know lol. I've seen pics. He does amazing work
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Looks like it's only about $300.
Or...just buy a completed, case coloured 1-H in .475 Turnbull for $2000.
Really not a bad deal.
Damn...now I want one.
I really do have a serious rifle addiction brewing up here. :)
 
Turkeyslayer 1300 said:
.450/400 400 grain DGX
Test Barrel (24") Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 200 300
2050/3732 1820/2941 1608/2298 1420/1791

.405 300 grain Softpoint
Test Barrel (24") Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 200 300
2200/3224 1890/2379 1610/1727 1370/1250

You can run 400 gr Solids at 1900fps in the .405

9.3x62 286 Interlock (For Comparison)
Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
2360/3537 2155/2950 1961/2442 1778/2008 1608/1642 1453/1340

500 ft/lbs Difference, All theoretical but something to think about.
Click to expand...

The .405" 300gr bullet has a crappy SD of .261 whereas the 9.3mm 286gr bullet's SD is .305. The 9.3 will out penetrate the 405 win every time. That's why professionals like Kevin Robertson and Don "Ganyana" Heath use them for large nasty creatures and heap praise on them where the most recent use of the 405 in Africa was by the beautiful, but recoil shy, Brittany Boddington.

Point, 9.3x62.

The 450-400 is another one that punches above it's weight. It's a real dandy round and in the #1 it would make a great walking around rifle.
 
The other factor in comparing the 405 #1 to the 450/400 #1, is that if you're not trying to regulate 2 barrels to the same POI, the 450/400 is capable of 2450 fps (more case capacity than the 416 Rem) with modern powders, brass and rifles, with 400 grn bullets...........run the energy math on that one, and tell me we're still talking the same ballpark!!! This is a true apples to apples comparison.
Turkeyslayer, no offense intended, and although I understand the financial constraints, there is really no comparison in the 405 and the 450/400. I agree the 405 is adequate for all NA game within reasonable ranges, but is no where near adequate for elephant, buffalo or hippo as is the 450/400 with 400 gn bullets. For these guys I personally prefer 500+ gn bullets in 45-47 cal at 2150-2400 fps, these are TRUE fight stoppers!!!
Brybenn, have you considered the 416 Rigby, it is one helluva cartridge and does everything the 450/400 does and more with more readily available brass and a much greater bullet selection. Just a thought, I love the Rigby cartridge and have owned 3 over the years. Nothing, and I mean nothing, stands in front of the Rigby and survives when she goes BANG!!!
 
I didn't realize Turnbulls work was that reasonable. I realize Britt killed a cape buff with a 405win without incident but I'd prefer more punch if it were me. C-fbmi I was looking at the 416 taylor and the rigby as well. However the 450/400 would have more meaning then just a hunting rifle as I'm getting married we decided I get a gun(after much pleading). She gets 2 rings I get 1 cheap band and a gun. Her engaugement ring cost $2600 for just the stones so a rimmed cartridge of tradition seems fitting I know the 405win has been around along time as well but the performance offered with the 450/400 is a benefit. And if I ever make it to africa or west for big bears the 400gr bullet is better suited for heavy bone

I'm also going to hAve a rifle in 375hh 416(something)And 458wm eventually but I'd like something special for my first wedding
 
I was about to cast dispersions on the .450/400 (400 at 2100) as being anemic compared to say a .470 or .500 NE, but clearly a 400 at 2400 from a modern rifle is another matter entirely. While I'm not a Boddington fan, neither do I entirely dismiss his opinions, and he is/was of the opinion, that for buffalo sized game, the .450/400 is a wonderful cartridge and should be more popular than the elephant cartridges. Maybe so, but the thought of a .50/580 at 2150 still gives me a warm fuzzy feeling when I think back to that day we managed to get in amongst a herd in the grass.

In terms of a .416, I was totally impressed by the power, trajectory, and versatility of the .416 Rigby in my #1 (a 350 gr X or Magtip over 102 grs of H-4350 for 2850). As a result I was never taken with the Remington version which I still believe could have been so much more had it been brought out on the Ultramag case. Still, the .416 Remington has performed well on the world stage, equalling if not surpassing the original Rigby performance, and it seems reasonable to expect the .450/400 in a modern rifle like the #1 to match that level of performance.
 
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