great to know! my 1911's never really cared for them, this will be a great alternative.
glad to hear you got your issue sorted, 500 is really stretching it's legs!
450 Bushmaster
- Thread starter wallz
- Start date
great to know! my 1911's never really cared for them, this will be a great alternative.
glad to hear you got your issue sorted, 500 is really stretching it's legs!
Okay, I had a busy weekend.
Bought some .458 300 gr TSX tips. They sized decently easy enough. I ran then twice through the different sizes, and 20 pcs were sized in no time. Loaded them up last night and had a chance to run some testing today. Had them running tops at 2380 fps, and I think there is still room to speed them up. Didn't want to over do things and worked up slowly. Now in once fired brass. The only thing I ran across was the last step in loading, with the crimp. They were much tighter in the case at .452 overall compared to the .451 for the TEZ.
Will try and find some 300 gr TTSX next and try those out as well. groups for the TSX were decent with a node already found, so that I'll keep for next time if I go that route.
The 290 gr T-EZ were another story. They seemed to slow down considerably on this round. This is now once fired starling brass, compared to new that I was using. They have slowed around 100 fps. Enough so that I will load a few up from what I settled on and try again. No craters on the primers, or flattening at all, so it seems I can try and speed them up. They did slip into the once fired brass easier than the new brass, so that might be the difference. Kinda stumped on this one. The first go round seemed to have more oomph on them then now. Even the 300 gr plated that I have for range fun were pushing harder. I'll speed them up and keep an eye on how much I can get away with. Now about 150 rounds down the barrel, so I think that will settle of as well. The pressure has def fallen off some from the previous new brass.
I found a case gauge, and the worked brass fit in there no problem on all the steps. I'll have to try the shot brass and see if they slip into the guage as well.
Bought some .458 300 gr TSX tips. They sized decently easy enough. I ran then twice through the different sizes, and 20 pcs were sized in no time. Loaded them up last night and had a chance to run some testing today. Had them running tops at 2380 fps, and I think there is still room to speed them up. Didn't want to over do things and worked up slowly. Now in once fired brass. The only thing I ran across was the last step in loading, with the crimp. They were much tighter in the case at .452 overall compared to the .451 for the TEZ.
Will try and find some 300 gr TTSX next and try those out as well. groups for the TSX were decent with a node already found, so that I'll keep for next time if I go that route.
The 290 gr T-EZ were another story. They seemed to slow down considerably on this round. This is now once fired starling brass, compared to new that I was using. They have slowed around 100 fps. Enough so that I will load a few up from what I settled on and try again. No craters on the primers, or flattening at all, so it seems I can try and speed them up. They did slip into the once fired brass easier than the new brass, so that might be the difference. Kinda stumped on this one. The first go round seemed to have more oomph on them then now. Even the 300 gr plated that I have for range fun were pushing harder. I'll speed them up and keep an eye on how much I can get away with. Now about 150 rounds down the barrel, so I think that will settle of as well. The pressure has def fallen off some from the previous new brass.
I found a case gauge, and the worked brass fit in there no problem on all the steps. I'll have to try the shot brass and see if they slip into the guage as well.
Hey Wally - Your Learning and I think having some Fun doing it ! Gun Nutz for Sure 
.RJ
.RJRJ,
Too big of a learning curve, as it gets $$ fast.
What is driving me crazy are the inconsistent speeds. Out of say 10 shots, 8 will be standard fps and the other two will drop off like 100 fps plus. And no apparent order either, just random. Trying to sort if that is just the nature of lil gun, or something I am missing. New cci450 primers, new, (now once fired) brass, new powder. Load all them up the same. Same seating depth, same crimp. Enough to make one pull out their remaining hair!
Too big of a learning curve, as it gets $$ fast.
What is driving me crazy are the inconsistent speeds. Out of say 10 shots, 8 will be standard fps and the other two will drop off like 100 fps plus. And no apparent order either, just random. Trying to sort if that is just the nature of lil gun, or something I am missing. New cci450 primers, new, (now once fired) brass, new powder. Load all them up the same. Same seating depth, same crimp. Enough to make one pull out their remaining hair!
And your sure your powder WEIGHT s are Exactly the same ? RJ
Yep, all on my M1000 balance scale. I load in batches of 50, so they are all the same.
Well I have no idea what to suggest - 100 fps is a BUNCH to lose and 2 out of 10 ??? Crazy RJ
Any Updates Wally
Any Updates Wally
No he’s driving them at 2200-2300 fps just as fast as a 45-70 . RJ
Interesting to follow this along, thanks for the details
Which bullet sizing dies did you get in? and they are working fine for the monos? more force required?
re the fps differences, any chance resized dimensions have some variance? hard to imagine, but...
Okay, quick update.
I scratched my head over this loss of fps a few days last week. Figured I would back track a bit and try and find the issue.
I sat down and ran the ones I had loaded with a much harder "crimp". I say crimp, but they are not a traditional roll crimp for the 450, as they headspace off the brass. The Hornady dies come with a separate crimp die, so I worked that a bit harder.
Also ran up a bit more powder charge to see what would happen and if I could get my speed back. These I did not run the harder crimp on. I guess I figured I would try and rule out one thing at a time.
I also ran a shim in the forearm of the Ruger #1, to try and get some more accuracy out of her, so I had a bunch of things going on. Was previous running about 1 1/2" spread on three shots.
The first few I ran were just over 2300 fps, and touching/overlapping at 100M. Sweet. I think I still had a few cases in the 15 or so I extra crimped, so next range trip will rule that out. I had 2 out of the 15 or so that ran 2262 and 2285, and the rest were over 2300.
The ones I loaded a bit heavier, but not extra crimped were not giving me the warm and fuzzy, and speeds stayed in the 2260 fps range. The previous load was not flattening my primers, or showing a firing pin crater, and they are now overlapping, so I will cary on with those and just run an extra heavy crimp.
As I mentioned earlier, I was able to track down a case gage, and I only use them for the straight wall cartridges, like 44, as there is no way to really measure them. The previously fired brass I already shot, I cleaned, sized and flared. Once I had the tips in, they were sliding into the gauge, but weirdly, almost snuffly, even though they fit the chamber well. So I started looking at what I had my FL sizing die at, and it seems like I was a bit shy on that. So I resized all my previous prepped brass and checked all in the gauge. I'm thinking the combination of the new starling brass being tighter than my fired brass is building up the added pressure to run 2300. As I am really pushing these the brass is stretching more in the chamber. I'll run another batch with the heavy crimp and watch those, and set my scope up, zero it and be ready for some bear fun.
Was shooting the other 300 gr plated out to 500M again. These are in the 2260 fps range, so still pack a nice wallop on the gong out there.
The bullet sizing dies are the lee ones. .452", .454" and .457" that would normally be used for the lead tips guys make. I did run a brown scotch pad in the drill on the .457" for a bit, and that seemed to help ease that first .003" sizing a bit better. Yea, the press hasn't worked that hard at all in the 3 years I've had it. Never have to work the brass that hard as I had these mono copper tips. I put the original full handle on the Forster press on for this work, and that helped a bit as well. Heck even started looking at a 1 ton table press, and may do this if I go that route. The press should handle it, just a bit more work. Pushed them to 2280 fps with no problems at the higher end I tried. 4 shots, 34 fps ES and 13.9 DS. For sure an option for those that want to go this route as these tips are easier to find and plentiful. Still have to track down the TTSX ones at 300gr and try those as well. The TSX tips are local.
Suther: I'm running these fast for caliber, as I'm in a ruger #1, and feel confident the setup can handle the pressure. It is in a 10 twist, 20" barrel, so I know they are moving.
Had a new 223 lever out on the same range trip, so I had a busy day. Now trying to get that in the mix on the loading bench, so I'll be busy for a good while. But that is for a different thread.
I scratched my head over this loss of fps a few days last week. Figured I would back track a bit and try and find the issue.
I sat down and ran the ones I had loaded with a much harder "crimp". I say crimp, but they are not a traditional roll crimp for the 450, as they headspace off the brass. The Hornady dies come with a separate crimp die, so I worked that a bit harder.
Also ran up a bit more powder charge to see what would happen and if I could get my speed back. These I did not run the harder crimp on. I guess I figured I would try and rule out one thing at a time.
I also ran a shim in the forearm of the Ruger #1, to try and get some more accuracy out of her, so I had a bunch of things going on. Was previous running about 1 1/2" spread on three shots.
The first few I ran were just over 2300 fps, and touching/overlapping at 100M. Sweet. I think I still had a few cases in the 15 or so I extra crimped, so next range trip will rule that out. I had 2 out of the 15 or so that ran 2262 and 2285, and the rest were over 2300.
The ones I loaded a bit heavier, but not extra crimped were not giving me the warm and fuzzy, and speeds stayed in the 2260 fps range. The previous load was not flattening my primers, or showing a firing pin crater, and they are now overlapping, so I will cary on with those and just run an extra heavy crimp.
As I mentioned earlier, I was able to track down a case gage, and I only use them for the straight wall cartridges, like 44, as there is no way to really measure them. The previously fired brass I already shot, I cleaned, sized and flared. Once I had the tips in, they were sliding into the gauge, but weirdly, almost snuffly, even though they fit the chamber well. So I started looking at what I had my FL sizing die at, and it seems like I was a bit shy on that. So I resized all my previous prepped brass and checked all in the gauge. I'm thinking the combination of the new starling brass being tighter than my fired brass is building up the added pressure to run 2300. As I am really pushing these the brass is stretching more in the chamber. I'll run another batch with the heavy crimp and watch those, and set my scope up, zero it and be ready for some bear fun.
Was shooting the other 300 gr plated out to 500M again. These are in the 2260 fps range, so still pack a nice wallop on the gong out there.
The bullet sizing dies are the lee ones. .452", .454" and .457" that would normally be used for the lead tips guys make. I did run a brown scotch pad in the drill on the .457" for a bit, and that seemed to help ease that first .003" sizing a bit better. Yea, the press hasn't worked that hard at all in the 3 years I've had it. Never have to work the brass that hard as I had these mono copper tips. I put the original full handle on the Forster press on for this work, and that helped a bit as well. Heck even started looking at a 1 ton table press, and may do this if I go that route. The press should handle it, just a bit more work. Pushed them to 2280 fps with no problems at the higher end I tried. 4 shots, 34 fps ES and 13.9 DS. For sure an option for those that want to go this route as these tips are easier to find and plentiful. Still have to track down the TTSX ones at 300gr and try those as well. The TSX tips are local.
Suther: I'm running these fast for caliber, as I'm in a ruger #1, and feel confident the setup can handle the pressure. It is in a 10 twist, 20" barrel, so I know they are moving.
Had a new 223 lever out on the same range trip, so I had a busy day. Now trying to get that in the mix on the loading bench, so I'll be busy for a good while. But that is for a different thread.
Okay, figured I would round off this one.
With all the prep, and extra crimp the loads were averaging off at 2275 fps. I am okay with that, as they are touching consistently now at 100m. Verified dope to 200m, and will do one last verification to 300m and call it ready to hunt with.
The 300 gr plated range fodder, are turning out to be super fun, and fairly consistent as well. I am going to enjoy this rifle. I may try and push these out to 800m, just because, and see what it can do on the gongs out there.
With all the prep, and extra crimp the loads were averaging off at 2275 fps. I am okay with that, as they are touching consistently now at 100m. Verified dope to 200m, and will do one last verification to 300m and call it ready to hunt with.
The 300 gr plated range fodder, are turning out to be super fun, and fairly consistent as well. I am going to enjoy this rifle. I may try and push these out to 800m, just because, and see what it can do on the gongs out there.
Glad to see it all came along well Wallz. Great accuracy too!
I think iam going to load up some 325gr hard cast lead bullets made for 45 colt. I think they should be whoppers and cheap to do so, Be curious how hard I can push these in the ruger gunsite. Surprised you don't hear more about the BM here.
I think iam going to load up some 325gr hard cast lead bullets made for 45 colt. I think they should be whoppers and cheap to do so, Be curious how hard I can push these in the ruger gunsite. Surprised you don't hear more about the BM here.
I hear ya on that. For how versatile it seems, there is not much of a following up here in Canada, or at least that you hear about. I guess there is just not the need for a straight wall cartridge here as in the US.
I have since also discovered the reason for the speed anomaly I was intermittently having on both the hunting and range fun loads. Because there is no real nice funnel adapters for the alum funnels to get to the .45" opening, I have the orange Lyman one, I had my son 3D print an adapter that I put on the funnel, and place over the brass in the alum block. This is nice and tight fitting, and sits easily between the brass, and is just nice to use. It is a nice snug fit onto the funnel as well.
With the lil gun powder I'm using, there seems to be areas in the adapter that the powder hangs up on, beit I think it is mostly static. I did not notice this at all before, and don't even know how I missed it. It was giving me the erratic amounts in the loads, hence the erratic speeds I would oddly see. Now that I know and am aware of this, each will get a good tap with the powder pour.
I have been super busy with other reloading, and have not range tested yet. Sadly I have not been able to try the load on a spring bear either. They have just been too small, or elusive to get a shot away on my efforts so far.
well I loaded up some 230gr FMJ from my 45acp stash, I followed 450 load data for these with 38grs of lil gun in front of a small magnum rifle primer(half my brass is srp the other half is lrp) wish it was all small rifle as I have a good amount of small magnum rifle primers and nothing else to use them in.
next load I made was 325gr Missouri Hard Cast Slammers for 45colt. I used 460 S&W magnum load data for these, being a bolt action I'm confident the extra pressure will be a non issue like it would be in an AR platform. also going into 460 S&W load data opens up an entire range of loading data that you wouldn't see for the 450bm being they are made within AR specs.
Also picked up some 255gr Missouri Elmer K bullets,
these bullets along with the slammers have a brinell of 18 hardness, I want to send them fast and hard!
Hopefully I can make it out to the range this week, I'll chrono and check for signs of pressure. I'll mostly be shooting the rifle with irons but I may put on the scout scope to check for accuracy.
next load I made was 325gr Missouri Hard Cast Slammers for 45colt. I used 460 S&W magnum load data for these, being a bolt action I'm confident the extra pressure will be a non issue like it would be in an AR platform. also going into 460 S&W load data opens up an entire range of loading data that you wouldn't see for the 450bm being they are made within AR specs.
Also picked up some 255gr Missouri Elmer K bullets,
these bullets along with the slammers have a brinell of 18 hardness, I want to send them fast and hard!
Hopefully I can make it out to the range this week, I'll chrono and check for signs of pressure. I'll mostly be shooting the rifle with irons but I may put on the scout scope to check for accuracy.
