.450 Marlin vs. 45/70 Gov't vs. .444 Marlin.

EvilDezel

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Hello,

I am in the market to buy a bigger bore lever action rifle. I was wondering what the opinons were between the different cartridges.

I am leaning toward the .45/70 just for nostaligic/sentimental purposes. I know that the .450 Marlin is a bunch faster than the .45/70, and I don't know too much about the .444.

What are the cartridges like to reload? I know they are all straight walled cases, but are components hard to find?


So I would appreciate any help I can get.

Thanks again!
 
When loaded to the same pressure levels, the 45/70 is tops, the .450 Marlin has slightly less capacity, and the .444 marlin has some unique cast bullet requirements, if you want to use heavier bullets and loads.
 
If you reload or plan on reloading some day go for a 45-70.

If you don't reload go for a 450 Marlin it does exactly what a top loaded 45-70 is capable of.

444 have never had an interest in it find it kind of a middle cartridge does more than some cartridges but falls behind a 45-70 a buddy of mine had one and killed a few black bears with it he's happy.

I have 45-70's no interest at all in the other two rounds...
 
450 Hornady brass seems to last virtually forever, even with compressed loads. There's one extra step in the reloading process to bell the case mouth, and I guess another if you use a lee crimp die.

Much easier to get the powder in, with a 1/2 " hole you need not worry about powder piling up in the funnel. ;)

Also no need to walk up to the target, you can see the holes in it from 100yds. :D

(The following is just to tease Ben)
The 45/70 needs extra powder capacity catch the 450's "next generation" speed. :D

Seriously, components aren't a problem. You may not find any brass locally for either, but an email to a couple of the site's sponsors will yield you what you need. The only thing I've had trouble finding occasionally is jacketed bullets, so it's a case of when you see them, buy them.
Don't know anything about a 444, but sure you'll get some answers on them.
 
Camp Cook, I do reload. Are components easy to find?

What do you suggest for powder/projectile combos?

Moose, deer and bear are all on my hunting hit list.

Firstly don't listen to anyone that tells you the 450 Marlin gives better performance than a 45-70 they are identical in their ballistics the only reason for the existence of the 450 Marlin is due to the weak 45-70 actions that are out there, a top loaded 45-70 put into a weak action will blow it up.

H322 is my powder of choice it is not temp sensitive is clean and accurate it is the only powder that I now use.

I load Win brass with Win LR primers, and crimp with a Lee factory crimp die max 1 turn adjustment for jacketed and 1 1/2 turn for cast.

Jae-Bok Young in the States will ship you some of the very best hunting/defense cast bullets available, my plinking cast bullets are from The Bullet Barn jacketed are from Hornady just make sure you get gas checked bullets and my favorite do everything bullet is a 350gr Swift A-Frame.

300gr = 56grs H322
350gr = 54grs H322
405gr = 52grs H322
525gr - 550gr = 44grs H322

Reduce this data by at least 10% and work up safely I am not responsible for the use of this data by others... :D
 
There are soooo many powders that work well in the 45-70, that it is just about a case of see what powder you have on hand, and load it. The old original printing of the Lyman Handbook of Cast Loading, shows a 500 grain gas check bullet, loaded to 1625 feet per second, with Unique! That's a darn skookum load and normally one woudn't think of loading so high, with such a fast powder.
Virtually every powder from Unique and slower, until you get to 4350, which is too slow, will work fine with farily heavy bullets. I have never used 3031 in it, just because I don't have any on hand. But some of the most experienced 45-70 loaders and shooters on here swear by 3031.
In my Marlin 1895 I have used Unique, 2400, 4227, 4198, 4895, 4320 and Norma 203, that I can think of right off the top of my head. Of those, I like 4895 for medium and heavy loading of 420 grain cast bullets, with 4198 a close second, but not as good for heavy loading. However, I have not done as much with 4320 and Norma 203 and one or either, are likely just as good. As well as the tried and true 3031 and likely 4064, besides many of the newer powders. Why not Varget for heavy loads?
It is mainly because of the Springfield Trapdoor that factory loaded 45-70s are loaded light, as shown in the ballistics. I don't take ballistics all that seriously, and I caution not to sell the "anemic" factory loads too short. I have a beautiful Springfield Trapdoor that has been in the family since the early 1930s. An older brother shot a mature elk with it, using a factory loaded 405 grain jacketed bullet. He made a body hit at about a 45 degree angle, hitting it just behind the shoulder. The bullet went right through and out the other side. The elk decided it was time to lie down.
Cast bullets, either flat based or gas check, of the 400 to 420 grain range work so well and so accurate, that I can't see why one would pay a geater price to get jacketed bullets. I don't have experience with bullets heavier than 420, but some sing the praises of the heavy bullets. I tend to think the 420s would go through any animal I hit with them, making a large wound channel.
In short, if you are loading for a strong action, like the Marlin, it is pretty hard to do much wrong. My top loadings are always governed by the whummping I take, and not because of too much pressure in the rifle!
 
You can make nice shotshells for the 45/70 as well, ideal if you're out hunting moose and you run into grouse or some such.
 
444 has better ballistics. less recoil for same sectional density..... a waaay cooler round.
45-70 is the only good government and has a lot of history. No real advantage in using those very heavy bullets unless the animals in your area are grazing kevlar.
 
Personal preference is carries more weight, but if you don't have a preference, then I'd strongly recommend the 45-70 for the reasons already stated. I've had six different 45-70's and currently still have two. I would not want to be without a 45-70.
 
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The unwanted stepchild: .458 x 2 inch American, FN-K98 Mauser action, Boyd's laminate stock.
Twenty one inch barrel, 1:16 twist, Leupold 1.5-6 power, Jewel trigger.
Has a Benelli mercury recoil reducer.
I can safely convert any discarded H&H Magnum brass to fit into this chamber, with my RCBS conversion die.
 
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