454 casull vs 45/70

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hooligan

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I have a NEF handi rifle in 45/70. My load for this is a 405gr bullet @ (my best guess) between 1800 and 2000fps. I don't have a crono but from what I have read the velocity should be about right. I am looking for a bush gun for protection from Grizzly bears. I have come across many black bears and never had a problem. Anyway, I naturally looked at the Marlin GG in 45/70 but came across a Puma m-92 lever in 454 Casull. I am wondering how it stacks up to the GG. The Puma is 16" SS with Hi-vis sights so it is a much smaller package than the Marlin. I keep reading that the 454 is more powerful than 45/70 but I know that factory loaded 45/70 is quite weak compared to "my loads". Can the 454 be loaded to come close to the 45/70? I don't know much about the 454 but I would probably use 300ish grain bullets unless someone can suggest something better. I have used 300gr bullets in the Handi but I prefer 405gr. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
 
I would take the Puma, simply because I am looking for one (oddly enough in 454 casull too!), but that's beside the point. They are both proven cartridges, and the Marlin is a great name.
Buy both, and sell the one that doesn't fit the bill.
 
Considering most hunters surprised by charging grizzlies usually dispatch them with their far less superior hunting rifles eg. 30-06, 7x57 .308 25-06 and such. I don't think you have to really worry which gun you choose to use. Though the 454 does sound cool I would vote for the 45/70 with some 405gr cast bullets.
 
If you were looking for a handgun to carry in bear country, the .454 would be a good choice, but chambering a rifle for a pistol cartridge has never made a lot of sense to me. Handload some good quality heavy cast bullets in the .45-70 and it wont let you down - if you practice.
 
I am currious to know if there is much differance between a puma and a rossi? Both are based on the winchester 92 action.


If a firearm is intended for bear defence. Then I would want a rifle that had the biggest punch. A person is really only going to get one or two shots off if attacked. So it is either have something powerfull enough to kill the bear quickly or else becoming a T bone steak. Having a larger mag is not as important as shot displacement or knockdown power.
 
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Think about the bullet selection in factory loads. Not sure I'd trust a plain jane jacketed handgun bullet for shooting things I want to make dead, or that want to make me dead.

I'd go with the 45-70. Oh wait, I already did. Three times!
 
"...want a rifle that had the biggest punch..." Then you want a .45-70. However, Yogi isn't interested in you. If you're afraid of Yogi, stay home.
 
Thanks for all the help. Unfortunately I am not licensed to carry a handgun so that is out. I understand that the 45/70 is the more powerful round and is "better" for my intended purpose but the 454 is quite a bit smaller rifle. It would be much nicer to pack around. That is why I am asking how much performance I would lose with the 454.

soldier506 - as far as I know the Rossi and Puma are the same rifle sold by Legacy.

Thanks again.
 
I have a puma & after many different loads, I am very happy. It can handle good loads and is light. Compare the 2 side x side. The marlin wont do any good if u leave it behind because of the lbs my .02$
 
Hmm, 1890 FPS with a 310 gr hardcast isnt adequate? 16 inch barrel, shorter and lighter than a 1895 GS, whats not to like?
 
You are not giving up much when you use 325 to 350gr bullets. Lever gun loads for the 45-70 can run about 40,000 psi where the 454 cartridge and guns are rated at 50,000
You would be giving up about 350 fps (1700 vs 2050)

There will be much more of a difference when you go to heavier bullets. If you want 400+ gr bullets, go 45-70.


If you use a 45-70 in a modern bolt or Ruger No 1 then you can load to 50,000 psi.
 
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My 20" barreled s/s LSI Puma M92 454 Casull is actually almost identical in length and weight to my Marlin 1895GS 45-70.

When I am in black bear country I carry the 454 but switch over to my 45-70 when I am in grizzly country.

I load from 240gr to 405gr in my 454 Casull's and 300gr to 550gr in my 45-70 when both are loaded to max velocities the 45-70 still stomps the 454 when it comes to overall performance...
 
There's not a grizzly alive that will know the difference between the 45-70 and the 454 Casull at self defense range when loaded with good bullets.

I've not seen a lick of difference between the 45-70 and 45 Colt on bears (essentially a lightly loaded 454 Casull).

405gr and 420gr WFN from the 45-70 had no more effect than a 330gr WFN from the Colt...

Pick the one you like the most, and pack it!

280_ACKLEY
 
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