.454 loads too light?

HeliDoc

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I have recently had an experience with reloads for my .454 Casull that seems a bit strange.
I have been loading for the .454 for some time and have established several loads (both full-power and reduced) that have worked flawlessly for nearly
a thousand rounds.
Recently though, I decided to load a box of Hornady 250 gr. XTP's that I got as part of a private lot purchase. I used a suggested load of
27.5 gr. of 296 (from the Hodgdon site) which supposedly gives a MV of 1700 fps. At the range, the first 3 shots were VERY mild - clearly no where near
the recoil/muzzle blast one would expect from this load. The 4th round didn't even light the powder in the case - the primer just pushed the bullet into the
barrel about 3/8ths of an inch. There was powder in the case; I found it wadded up behind the bullet in the barrel. This powder was from the same can
as many of my "good" reloads, so it is not the problem.
After this incident, it occurred to me that 27.5 gr is rather light for a 250gr jacketed bullet - after all, a 240 gr jacketed works nicely with
37.5 gr of the same powder. So is it reasonable to back off 10.0 grs of powder when going up 10.0 grs in bullet weight?
Subsequent research into starting loads for a 250gr jacketed using Win 296, suggest anywhere from 27.5 (like I tried) to 28.8 and even 34.0 (although one manual
shows 34.0 as the max, which I believe is accurate).
So my big question is: can too low a charge of 296 fail to ignite or only partially ignite? I have seen many warnings about not reducing starting loads
of 296 or H110 more than 10%, but they don't say what will happen if you do. While it is hard to believe that the manufacturer's load data would
suggest a load that be in this "too light" category, I'm at a loss as to why these loads of mine failed to perform normally.
For anyone who wants the exact load details, it was Starline brass, Winchester small rifle primers, Hornady 250 gr XTP jacketed, 27.5 grs Win 296,
and a moderate crimp into the bullet groove.
Any help or insights would be appreciated!
 
If you are going to load less than max with a powder that slow in a cartridge that big a heavy crimp and magnum primers will go a long way.
 
Yeah, there's something flakey at the Hodgdon site for that info. Or that "Bar X" bullet is something unique in how much it sits back into the case.

My Lyman book calls for starting at 31gns and maxing at 32 where it'll be a slightly compressed load at this max powder use when using a Barnes XPB bullet.

I usually just look for a bullet weight and consider myself good to go. But in this case I'm thinking that the Bar X sets back a lot in the casing and that's why it's listed as using lower charge weights.

Case in point. The listings at Hodgdon for that Bar X for the 4227 are similarly lighter than the listings for the 250 Barnes from my Lyman's 49th.

The thing with 296/H110 is that it needs the pressure build to burn correctly. And I've seen more than one recommendation that this powder should be used with the hotter and higher pressure Magnum primers for this reason. But even with magnum primers if the fill is too light it'll still give spotty results. Likely because the excessive air space acts too much like a buffer to lighten the pressure and spread the heat out from the primer.

So with these Hornady bullets does it look like you'll have a good size amount of air space with this load? If so I'd bet an e-beer that this is what the issue is. Maybe go with that listing from my Lyman's 49th.

It's also a great lesson that it's nice to have another source or three of data. Seldom do we get to use the exact bullet listed by these testing groups. So if we have info from a few such groups we're better informed and can spot the ringer more easily if and when it comes up.
 
If the 34gr load is correct (I also feel that it is correct) then your load is well below the 10% reduced load, I shoot 30gr of 296 and a 300gr cast bullet, I don't have an accurate chrono reading on it. Hopefully this week.
 
I just checked my Lyman cast bullet handbook, I feel the data in that book is convervative and the load for a 255gr cast bullet is min 33.4 and Max 34.5
 
If you are going to load less than max with a powder that slow in a cartridge that big a heavy crimp and magnum primers will go a long way.

This works the same way in my .357 loads, I use 296, fairly light loads (for 296 according to the manual) but of course I use a magnum primer and a good crimp. Excellent results for me so far.
 
If that "Bar X" bullet is anything like the .44 mag Barnes X-bullets I've seen, they are solid copper with absolutely massive and deep hollow point cavities. To get the weight of a comparable lead-core bullet they are indeed incredibly long and sit very far into the case to maintain COAL.

I always make sure the data I'm using is for a bullet of the same weight and construction because of these length and bearing surface differences. So cup-and-core, lead, solid copper, frangible, etc.
 
It's not a good idea to base your load for a jacketed bullet on the X bullet data. At the same time Hodgdon's load for 300gr jacketed bullet is 30 grains of 296 so something is fishy with the 250gr data
 
From the last few posts the only thing fishy is that X bullet issue.

Looking at the other abbreviations like NOS for Nosler obviously that "Bar X" is for the Barnes X bullet. And looking that up shows that the 250gn X bullet is a whopping .909 inch long with a cannelure ring that sits up really high. So that would explain the reduced loads for that weight of bullet. There's not enough room for more powder.
 
alot of mention of the X bullet in this thread that is just gonna muddy the water for you, load up around 32gr start and 34gr max with a heavy crimp and that should solve your issues with the 250gr Hornady jacketed bullets.
 
This is happening quite often with folks using the Hodgdons suggested loads on the bottle and on the site. Further to this, if u look at their load data for the 240 and 260gr bullets they are well over the 30gr mark, but for some strange reason the 250's fall in the area of ~27gr. I believe that this is the source of a lot of problems encountered but I will not say that one should ignore Hodgdons data for that bullet weight. Its just plain suspect and I choose to use another data source. I also load to the Freedom Arms specs and have never had a problem or any signs of pressure issues. I have inquired with Hodgdons as to why there is such a drop for 250gr when another reliable manufacturer states that the suggested load is right in between the 240 and 260's, where you would expect it to be. I never did get a response from them. I think too light a load can be just as dangerous as one that is too heavy, but then again that is only a matter of personal opinion.
dB
 
The only data on there site for 250gr bullets if for X bullets, these are solid copper and not a jacketed lead bullet so that data doesn't apply in the this case. When looking at data for other weights it becomes clear that his load is way below the 10% reduction, the load for 300gr jacketed bullet is 30gr
 
Yur right Max..Duh, the light just went on for me. Of course their data is for the copper bullet, however I believe they had other data listed a few years ago. I am going to have to dig thru my files as I am sure I pulled a copy off their site when I started loading 454 about 10yrs ago..I can see it still being a problem with folks just looking at bullet weight, not type and loading accordingly. Lots of issues in the US.
Cheers
dB
 
I now believe that the load data on the Hodgdon site is in fact only for the solid copper bullet. Thing is, I "confirmed" the 27.5 gr starting load on this http://www.reloadammo.com/454casull.htm page -
where they specifically list 27.5 gr for the Hornady 250gr XTP . Evidently the people compiling the .454 Casull loads pulled the data straight from the Hodgdon site not realizing it was for a specific bullet NOT
just any 250gr.....

alot of mention of the X bullet in this thread that is just gonna muddy the water for you, load up around 32gr start and 34gr max with a heavy crimp and that should solve your issues with the 250gr Hornady jacketed bullets.

Thanks MaxKW - I am going to try exactly that.
 
This confusion caused by the only bullet being an oddball is just one more reason why we need more than one source of information to check. And why I like having a paper bound loading manual to check with as well. It's also nice that my Lyman's 49th has little pictures of the bullets with the load data so I can see what sort of bullet shape is being considered. And that's something we don't have with the Hodgdon web site. If we did the odd long shape of this X bullet would have been a quick clue that something was off on this particular load.
 
Its that way for a reason. If you run full house with XTP you will:
Be way over pressure
Destroy forcing cone
Shoot core out the barrel, leaving jacket behind

Id you want full house buy XTP MAG bullets they were made for the 454 and 460
 
helidoc, exactly why everyone needs two loading manuals. Cross-reference every load. If the starting and maximum loads from manual to manual are close, use whichever spins your rotor. If there is a discrepancy of more than a few grains, stop, get more (reliable, not forum) data, and compare. Once I see data wildly deviating, I gotta see multiple sources of similar loads before I get that warm fuzzy "I can do this" feeling.

Your gun is worth more than a loading manual. Get two.
 
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