455 Webley and Trailboss

Rotaxpower

Rotaxpower

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Hey all, I was just wondering if anyone had any loads for the 455 Webley and Trailboss. I have already cast some 265grn hollow base boolits from my RCBS mold and have tried them in my Webley MK 1 with 4grns of unique with less than stellar results (shoots about 18" groups at 20 yards) Would starting at 3grns of Trailboss be ok and working up to 4.5grns? Would that be a little too hot? I am also using Hornady Mk11 brass. Thanks for all your help!
 
I use 3.6 grains with hornady factory bullets, 250 swc lead.

The ony danger is compressing the load. As long as you don't compress the powder with the bullet it should be fine. I also use trailboss for a few others and follow the same no compression rule.
 
Rotaxpower said:
Hey all, I was just wondering if anyone had any loads for the 455 Webley and Trailboss. I have already cast some 265grn hollow base boolits from my RCBS mold and have tried them in my Webley MK 1 with 4grns of unique with less than stellar results (shoots about 18" groups at 20 yards) Would starting at 3grns of Trailboss be ok and working up to 4.5grns? Would that be a little too hot? I am also using Hornady Mk11 brass. Thanks for all your help!
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It sounds like your load might be too weak to expand the HB and engage the rifling. Before you give up on Unique I would try 4.3-4.4 gr of Unique - if your bullets are fairly soft that extra oomph might be enough to bump up the skirt to engage the rifling. The MKI and MKII service revolvers have light rifling and most of them shoot better with a stouter load and quite soft bullets, (brinell hardness of 10 his perfect). Quickload estimates 12K psi for 4.3 gr Unique and the 265 gr HB in the MKII cartridge.
 
Trail Boss is better in longer cases like 44 sp and 45 schofield.
It does not do so well in short cased cartridges for some reason.

I use it in my 44 Sp and 45 sch rounds and its great stuff just dont go above recomended load ranges as the presure spikes fast when you go above the listed loads.
Buy some Unique and try a 5 gr load of it with a 265 gr HB webley bullet thats about the most common webley 455 load i have seen.
I dont use them HB webley bullets anymore i use Keith SWC sized .452 and 250 gr weight being as 95% of the MKIs and MKIIs have
.452 bores or less it makes no sence to use .455 bullets i stoped years ago.
the HB bullets are good in the 455/476 marked guns as they have bigger dia bores.
but most webleys if you check your bores there .452 or so not .455

If your Webley has .455 bore dia or bigger then the 265 gr HB webley .455 bullets are the right thing to use.
the MKI and MKII .452 bores and the narrow chamber throats of about the same dia dont need a bullet that over sized and if your useing some of the harder lead webley bullets ive seen around then your really putting more strain on your guns.
The orignal webley bullets were softer than alot of the stuff ive seen cast and sold in Canada.
Check your bores dia and your chamber throats as they do vary.
 
I am using the 265gr RNHB bullet, but the guy that casts them for me says they come out at around 280grs, so I am using 3.6grs of Unique in fiocchi and Hornady cases with good results.
 
Thanks for the repies guys, I cast my boolits out of pure lead so they should be nice and soft and hopefully the hollow base would expand enough to engage the rifling. I slugged the throats of the cylinder and also the barrel. The cylinder was .450 and the barrel was .449. Also when I measured the boolits I cast they were .451-.452 so I think I should be ok that way too. Should I bump my charge of Unique up to a max of 5grns? I know I have had good luck with Trail Boss with my 8mm Lebel, I was kind of hopping for the same luck with it in my 455.
 
Your bullet sounds good should work well with the dimensions you gave. I am fairly certain you just need to bump up the load a bit. Try 4.3-4.5 gr and see what happens. If that does not work better then i'd suspect something else is going on. I haven't see a webley that won't shoot with the HB bullet and a medium to stout load of Unique, it's as close to foolproof as you can get.
 
Thanks Jethunter, I loaded up a few with 4.3grns tonight and will try them this week and post some results.
 
Rotaxpower said:
Thanks Jethunter, I loaded up a few with 4.3grns tonight and will try them this week and post some results.
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Did you use Unique or bump up the TB loads ?
Let us know how you do id also suspect when you measured the bore you had one side of the caliper on a land not both parts in the grove like what you want to get the best bore measurement.
Best way to do it is use one of your pure lead bullets and slug the bore tap the bullet out with a hardwood dowel or brass rod but make sure it expands into the groves when you hammer it in from the front with a hardwood dowel or mallet.
the bore should be 451 or 452 i never seen one .449
 
I bumped up the Load of unique, I did use a brass rod and one of the soft cast boolit for the bore. Maybe I should try it one more time to double check it.
 
A .449" bore size is technically correct, since the bore size before rifling (according to the sealed pattern) was supposed to be .441". The depth of the rifling was stated to be .004" according to Bruce & Reinharts book on the Webley Revolver. So 2x.008" plus .441" = .449". If you account for manufacturing tolerances and bore wear, anywhere from .449"-.452" or possibly even larger, is within the realm of possibility. The mk1 I had measured .4495", while both my current Mk2's measure .451" and .4515" respectively. OTOH, my "WG" in .476" slugs out at a whopping .466".

For loads, I have used 5gr of Unique with a 250gr flatpoint "cowboy" bullet with great results. I have also used 5.8grs of Blue Dot with equal effect. Both of these powders work best in the shorter mk2 case currently available from Hornady and Fiochi. I have also used Blue Dot in the longer Mk1 case, although I had to bump up the charge weight. The original Black Powder load, which used the mk1 case, produced a velocity of 700fps with the 265gr hollow base bullet. The smokeless load using the shorter mk2 case produced 600fps with the same bullet. It's best not to hot rod these old guns. If you can develop a load around 600-650 fps with a 250gr lead bullet that shoots around 4" groups I'd call it good. Accuracy brings up another point. Many of these old Webley's didn't have the most accurate Crown job when new, and 100+ years of knocking around didn't help them get any better. Have a gunsmith check and touch up your revolver's crown if necessary, it really makes a difference.
 
infidel29 said:
where do you get the keith designed bullets from Dingus?
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At the gettin place :)

from the guy that casts all my bullets.
He does not want me posting his info on the open forum but i think if you check anyone who casts alot they will have some keith type SWC molds.
Its a well known bullet type.

All the webs MKIs and MKIIs i have checked and i dont check everyones bore dia by slugging some i just use calipers, but most are around .451 to .452 even the minty ones.
if i had one with a .449 bore i sure would not be shooting .455 bullets thru it , whats the point in that, they will be so deformed the grouping will suffer maby thats the OPs problem.
if it were me i would try some lead .450 or maby .452 SWC and see how that shoots with 5 grs of unique, no harm in trying.
The good thing about useing the smaller dia bullets is they can be harder lead and wont spike presures.
The idea to me of haveing a bush packer is to be able to cut full 45 caliber holes in stuff not splatter lead :)
Thats the main reason i use keith SWC there proven to be the best there is for cutting full caliber holes in stuff.
 
The MKI and MKII barrels I have slugged were between .450" and .454", with most of them being .452"-.453". Throats have slugged between .449 and .453".

The RCBS "455 webley" mould I used dropped .4535" bullets. Like Dingus, I've very good results from soft cast flat base 45 colt bullets, especially the Lyman 454190. The trick with the flat base bullets seems to be that quite soft bullets shoot better than harder bullets. Most commercial cast bullets tend to too hard., lead up the barrel and shoot poorly.

Some of these webleys have tighter throats than barrels, and some of these don't shoot flat based bullets so well. I have a MK1 with a .449" throat and a .453" barrel. It would not shoot any flat based bullets properly, with leading and poor accuracy. But with the HB bullet it shoots 4 inch groups at 20 yards.
 
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Where can I get hold of Hornady .455 brass on this side of the divide?

The batch of Hornady cases I ended up with were bought at a Gun Show In Edmonton. I don't know who retails them.
 
I bought 455 brass from Mystic Precision - they are a site sponsor. Click on the advertising banner at the top right corner of the page or send a PM to Mystic Precision. He won't have it in stock but can order it in for you and take about a month.
 
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Well the 4.3grn loads never shot any better. (About 12" high and all over the place at 10 yards) I am at a loss here of what to do. Bump the charge up to 4.5grns? Try a different boolit that's not hollow based?
 
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