455 Webley MkII Load data anyone?
- Thread starter Moe
- Start date
Thanks IRC. I have been getting mostly recommendations for 5.0 gr of Unique. I am a little reserved as I'm loading for a Webley RIC and they are not the WWI era Mk 6 you have. Although my RIC is a solid frame gun and I will make my way to 5.0 gr of Unique in small steps. I just had it out to the range yesterday and my loads are averaging 500fps with 4.4 gr of Unique and 255 gr .454 Hornady cowboys. I am getting there, just slowly. Next plan is to load 4.6, 4.8, and 5.0 and see what happens over the chronograph. Will report back. If I have fingers to type.
Cheers
Moe
I've been loading 3Grains of Bullseye under a 250Gr bullet in Fiocchi brassm for my mark VI if that is any use to use. It's a nice light load. there is a facebook page for webley's if you are on there.
I now have a 455 Webley hollow base (HB) MK.II in 4 cavity brass Cramer mould in .455, so make up my rounds with that projectile.
I now have a 455 Webley hollow base (HB) MK.II in 4 cavity brass Cramer mould in .455, so make up my rounds with that projectile.
Was out this weekend. 4.6gr of Unique with the 255gr was getting me 595fps. I wanted to break 600fps so I loaded up a couple hundred at 4.8gr . I am going to try some of them Tuesday. I look forward to seeing if I still have fingers.
Cheers
Moe
Cheers
Moe
hatman1793
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
3.8 grains of Bullseye sounds interesting. Unique is a fine powder but a little dirtier than Bullseye, but if you have RedDot, I would be inclined to try 3.5 grains & see how it goes.
I haven't used Bullseye in years but as I recall it was a clean powder. I have read that if used in 455 that the pressures can spike up quickly so I am reluctant to use it in this old black powder Webley RIC at this time.
I have been using Red Dot as well and while the pressures, accuracy, and cleanliness were very acceptable, I could not get velocities over 500fps with 3.4gr and thus was getting a lot of bullets bouncing back to the firing line off the rubber back stop.
I have been using Unique and have several loads of it ready to test as per my last post. I haven't had it out though as I am awaiting a minor trigger guard screw thread that stripped out (before I got it) to be repaired.I loaded up to 4.6gr and averaged 595fps. My latest loading of 4.8gr awaits to be seen.
Cheers
Moe
I have been using Red Dot as well and while the pressures, accuracy, and cleanliness were very acceptable, I could not get velocities over 500fps with 3.4gr and thus was getting a lot of bullets bouncing back to the firing line off the rubber back stop.
I have been using Unique and have several loads of it ready to test as per my last post. I haven't had it out though as I am awaiting a minor trigger guard screw thread that stripped out (before I got it) to be repaired.I loaded up to 4.6gr and averaged 595fps. My latest loading of 4.8gr awaits to be seen.
Cheers
Moe
vagrantviking
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- High River, Alberta
Unique can be a bit dirty but I like it for the same reasons that you mentioned. More gradual pressure curve seems like it will be easier on the old iron guns.
It's also why I'm not a big fan of trailboss in the antiques. It does have an easy formula for creating load data where none is available though so I understand why that would interest many using obsolete cartridges.
It's also why I'm not a big fan of trailboss in the antiques. It does have an easy formula for creating load data where none is available though so I understand why that would interest many using obsolete cartridges.
Well the 4.8gr of Unique was a bit much. Got some spitting like the 455 Factory loads and it was punching primers and showing other high pressure signs. So back to 4.6gr and all is well.
I have found my happy place and now just want to try the xmetal projectiles.
Cheers
Moe
I have found my happy place and now just want to try the xmetal projectiles.
Cheers
Moe
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I've got lots of old BP originally guns...long and short.
41 LC, 32-20 ( Umm...that would be a rifle officer, keep scrolling) & 455. I'm away at work but IIRC ( getting older ) they all seem to like 4.5 grains of Unique. Charges at 4.2 usually are a bit sedate IMO.
Sort of peculiar that the charge keeps on going through different rounds and working well.
5gr Unique is hotter than I'd go in .455 mkii case with a flat based bullet unless i was seating it very long. Seating depth makes quite a difference to chamber pressure.
OTOH 5gr in 45acp or autorim case used in a MKI Webley is lower pressure and probably a nice safe load in most instances. Unfortunately many internet sources of data don't specify which brass they are using and some reloaders might not catch the difference.
The bullet design also affects pressure. The hollow base bullet effectively increases case capacity and lowers chamber pressure compared to the same weight flat base bullet seated to the same depth.
For instance. 5gr Unique in the Mk11 brass with a flat based bullet seated deep could easily be 50% higher than what the revolvers were rated for.
One other thing to remember about these old low pressure guns is we can't work up loads watching brass for pressure signs. It's very possible the gun will fail before the brass shows pressure signs.
OTOH 5gr in 45acp or autorim case used in a MKI Webley is lower pressure and probably a nice safe load in most instances. Unfortunately many internet sources of data don't specify which brass they are using and some reloaders might not catch the difference.
The bullet design also affects pressure. The hollow base bullet effectively increases case capacity and lowers chamber pressure compared to the same weight flat base bullet seated to the same depth.
For instance. 5gr Unique in the Mk11 brass with a flat based bullet seated deep could easily be 50% higher than what the revolvers were rated for.
One other thing to remember about these old low pressure guns is we can't work up loads watching brass for pressure signs. It's very possible the gun will fail before the brass shows pressure signs.
burnt_servo
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- right in the middle of b.c.
just to add to this conversation ...
i've converted a few french mas 1873's to dual use 45 schofield / 455 webley now .
the throats in the cylinder are on the .442 to .448 range , i haven't measured any larger yet , which is fairly tight .
having a tight throat immediately causes a spike in pressure , back in the days of black powder , this may have been needed to get all of the powder to burn properly .
with smokeless i feel this causes a unnecessary pressure spike .
opening the throat to .453 to .454 and moving the throat right to the end of the cylinder allows the bullet to move significantly with a low amount pressure , causing essentially a larger case volume , by the time the bullet hits any real resistance , the bullet is into the barrel and the cylinder gap is bleeding off pressure . this essentially creates a large margin of safety when higher pressure rounds may be used .
in my opinion , this allows ammo like fiocchi 455 webley to be safely fired .
also many people are not properly converting the pressure created by 45 acp and comparing it to 455 webley .
if i remember correctly 455 webley is measured in long tons and is a rear ward pressure measurement , 45 acp isn't .
when compared properly 45 acp and 455 webley are very close to each other in pressure .
i don't shoot 45 acp because of the need to cut the cylinder to use it , but i use fiocchi 455 webley without hesitation in a cylinder i have modified in a french 1873 mas .
between several guns , i have fired close to a thousand rounds of fiocchi 455 webley , and easily twice as many of my hand loads without issue .
i've converted a few french mas 1873's to dual use 45 schofield / 455 webley now .
the throats in the cylinder are on the .442 to .448 range , i haven't measured any larger yet , which is fairly tight .
having a tight throat immediately causes a spike in pressure , back in the days of black powder , this may have been needed to get all of the powder to burn properly .
with smokeless i feel this causes a unnecessary pressure spike .
opening the throat to .453 to .454 and moving the throat right to the end of the cylinder allows the bullet to move significantly with a low amount pressure , causing essentially a larger case volume , by the time the bullet hits any real resistance , the bullet is into the barrel and the cylinder gap is bleeding off pressure . this essentially creates a large margin of safety when higher pressure rounds may be used .
in my opinion , this allows ammo like fiocchi 455 webley to be safely fired .
also many people are not properly converting the pressure created by 45 acp and comparing it to 455 webley .
if i remember correctly 455 webley is measured in long tons and is a rear ward pressure measurement , 45 acp isn't .
when compared properly 45 acp and 455 webley are very close to each other in pressure .
i don't shoot 45 acp because of the need to cut the cylinder to use it , but i use fiocchi 455 webley without hesitation in a cylinder i have modified in a french 1873 mas .
between several guns , i have fired close to a thousand rounds of fiocchi 455 webley , and easily twice as many of my hand loads without issue .
