458 socom
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That would be awsome if NEA would start produceing the unobtainable in Canada (F^ch ITAR) and support our own economy...win-win IMO
Correct me if I am wrong but I was under the impression that there is no need to modify the magazine or follower. Thought that was part of the sales pitch.
An unmodified standard 30 rd mag holds 10 rds of .458(single stack)
Heres a thought,pay close attention
I have brought this up before
step 1: (NEA) produce a .458 PISTOL and make it readilly avail.
step 2: Create or mark an (UNPINNED standard 30rdmag) Pistol mag for NEA .458 SOCOM
just like LAR mag
step 3: jump up and down and celebrate as there is now a single stack 10rd pistol mag avail. for a PISTOL readilly avail in Canada. It just happens to hold 30rds of .223 and fit in other rifles too.
Get where i am going with this? OP post in the title of thread "NEA look here"
Correct me if I am wrong but I was under the impression that there is no need to modify the magazine or follower. Thought that was part of the sales pitch.
An unmodified standard 30 rd mag holds 10 rds of .458(single stack)
Heres a thought,pay close attention
I have brought this up before
step 1: (NEA) produce a .458 PISTOL and make it readilly avail.
step 2: Create or mark an (UNPINNED standard 30rdmag) Pistol mag for NEA .458 SOCOM
just like LAR mag
step 3: jump up and down and celebrate as there is now a single stack 10rd pistol mag avail. for a PISTOL readilly avail in Canada. It just happens to hold 30rds of .223 and fit in other rifles too.
Get where i am going with this? OP post in the title of thread "NEA look here"
A magazine with the follower specifically designed to fit the .458 Socom round would both function better for that round and be an easier sell to the RCMP.
Even if it's a 5 rounder, that's 15 rounds of 5.56x45.
Just have each unit sold with 10 mags.
Even if it's a 5 rounder, that's 15 rounds of 5.56x45.
Just have each unit sold with 10 mags.
This was kinda where I was going with that
I would love to their spin on this sort of thing when it hits their desk.
If they want to stick to letter of the law with no wiggle room or common sense lets see what they have to say about this. after all we are just obeying the laws.
If its un-enforceable perhaps the limit on mag capacity needs to be removed to save themselves the headache and wasted co$t of enforcement .
PS. sorry for the thread de-rail but worthy discussion IMO
1) the followers in the .458 socom are dished and will not work with .223
2) a well-known importer has already tried this path, several years ago, no-go with the RCMP. They appear to be determined to not allow standard-capacity capability with magazines.
Do we know who this importer was?
why did it fail?
There is no law that I am aware of that forbids you from putting an aftermarket(magpul) follower in your Lar mags.
No law that says my magazine must work properly for what it was "designed for"
If Canadian company produced there would be no restriction on "Import"
And
A canadian made .458 socom pistol with legal 10 rd mags ???? I do not understand why this would be a no-go.
It is the letter of the law that is so readilly enforced at present that is in question. If they can selectivly apply the law then as mentioned before maybe its time for a court chalenge.
I do not think we should give up so easilly or at minimum bring into question the decicion to already deny this if it has in fact been denied
why did it fail?
There is no law that I am aware of that forbids you from putting an aftermarket(magpul) follower in your Lar mags.
No law that says my magazine must work properly for what it was "designed for"
If Canadian company produced there would be no restriction on "Import"
And
A canadian made .458 socom pistol with legal 10 rd mags ???? I do not understand why this would be a no-go.
It is the letter of the law that is so readilly enforced at present that is in question. If they can selectivly apply the law then as mentioned before maybe its time for a court chalenge.
I do not think we should give up so easilly or at minimum bring into question the decicion to already deny this if it has in fact been denied
1) if you are talking about getting a .458 socom mag and changing the follower to work with .223, you have re-designed the mag. It is now designed for .223 and would be limited to 10 rounds (if a pistol mag). Don't bother to ask me to quote law / regulation or case law, there isn't any - but this does seem blindingly obvious.
2) The RCMP isn't stupid. They could, quite reasonably, simply deem the ".458 Socom" mag to be in fact designed and manufactured for .223 / 5.56 if the follower was for a .223 / 5.56 magazine, regardless of the manufacturer's statements. They are quite happy to declare magazines designed / built for pump-action rifles to be in fact AR-15 rifle magazines (admittedly this was made easier by the manufacturer's marketing statements).
Some decisions have relied on markings (e.g., the LAR mags - that Questar got from the RCMP, the 40/9 decision - which I obtained from the RCMP), but that doesn't mean they will just say "yes" when NEA or other takes an AR-15 223 mag and just stamps 458 on it. It might help to run the mag production on a line exclusively for ".458"... but I am told the cost of low-volume mag production, due to the stamping / folding dies, is prohibitive.
All in all, if you disagree, prove me (us) wrong. Get a .458 mag imported (a five-round rifle mag would be easy - it would help a lot if the mag body, not baseplate, said ".458"), then send a sample to the RCMP with a 5.56 follower and ask for a written determination re: legality. You should first protect yourself by asking, in writing, for permission to do so.
This is your roadmap to make it happen - so no excuses, and no asking others to do the work for you - let us know, in a few months, how it works out.
It would be a "go", most likely. It just would not function with .223 because of the follower.
LOL! Yes, mechanical sense. Look at the 458 follower, look at a 5.56 follower, think about why the 5.56 has a bump on one side. You might get the first few to work, but towards the last few, the rounds would just spit out the top of the mag. Certainly the last two would not work.
from TEPPO-JUTSU .458 website:
By using the standard .223 caliber lower assembly and UNMODIFIED magazines, the .458 SOCOM Advanced Weapons System can be deployed simply by switching upper assemblies. The standard 30-round .223 caliber magazine will hold 10 rounds of .458 SOCOM ammunition, whereas the 20-round magazine will hold 7, and the USA 40-round version up to 15 rounds. As such, the .458 SOCOM Advanced Weapons System lends itself perfectly for law enforcement and special operations applications.
It is claimed that it isn’t even necessary to change magazines for the new round: the standard 30-round 5.56 mm magazine will hold 10 rounds of .458 SOCOM ammunition, whereas the 20-round magazine will hold 7, and the USA 40-round version up to 15 rounds.
Not saying that the follower you pictured would not be preferable but...I think you get the gist.
By using the standard .223 caliber lower assembly and UNMODIFIED magazines, the .458 SOCOM Advanced Weapons System can be deployed simply by switching upper assemblies. The standard 30-round .223 caliber magazine will hold 10 rounds of .458 SOCOM ammunition, whereas the 20-round magazine will hold 7, and the USA 40-round version up to 15 rounds. As such, the .458 SOCOM Advanced Weapons System lends itself perfectly for law enforcement and special operations applications.
It is claimed that it isn’t even necessary to change magazines for the new round: the standard 30-round 5.56 mm magazine will hold 10 rounds of .458 SOCOM ammunition, whereas the 20-round magazine will hold 7, and the USA 40-round version up to 15 rounds.
Not saying that the follower you pictured would not be preferable but...I think you get the gist.
Not Trying to get into a pissing match with you,simply discussing this but, there is no redesign needed. The one you pictured is an aftermarket not original follower,It was not made for almost 3 years after the use and testing of the .458
The one in picture no doubt facilitates the extra 1/4" needed to seat full mag a closed bolt(Top-up reload sit.)
As far as RCMP it makes the point argueable at least and might force them to re-evaluate their arbitrary decision makeing process.
Yes the body would need to be stamped/acid etched/screened to say pistol mag(easy enough to do)
If I had unlimited resourses I would do just that....An already established Canadian company is more than halfway through the hoops needed to do this.
I will contact the people needed to make an inquiry on this but I financially cannot do it on my own.
Why is everybody so defeatist and negative about trying to enact any sort of change?? Squeaky wheel gets the grease,more squeaking=more grease. Worth the effort.
Maybe Questar has tried??? but with a Canadian manufacturer on board I bet the outcome might be diff.
The law defines prohibited devices. Someone gets to make a determination - which in practice is the RCMP - about what does and does not fall within the definition. Of course, we can disagree with their determinations and go to court for a final view on the matter, but the expense is prohibitive.
No worries, your point about the original designs is correct. It is the current design I showed.
I don't think you need unlimited resources, just, as I mentioned:
C-products, until it went bankrupt, would have been the most likely place to agree to mark the mag body. I don't know which company, now, would be a likely candidate to approach, but you can find a few with google and make inquiries. They should agree to do sample as cost, or no cost, in order to open up a small-sized market in Canada.
Your answer is full of FAIL!. If one were to ascribe to your point of view, then you would have to believe that every solitary firearm part that is either imported or manufactured in Canada is examined by the RCMP. This is simply not the case. The bureaucracy for such an endeavour does NOT exist.
Yes, of course the law defines prohibited devices. By all means, continue to overstate the obvious. What I'm asking is where in Canadian law does it state that the RCMP must be consulted before importation and manufacturing of magazines?
Please, someone with a true grasp of the situation answer my question?
