.45ACP loads for lighter springs.

[dearslayer]

A while back it was recommended that I change out the springs in my Ruger SR1911 .45acp to have more controlled handling. The pistol now has a 13 lb recoil and 17 lb main spring. I want to load some cast 200gr SWC boolits. I found in the Lyman cast bullet 4th edition handbook a load for a Lyman #452630 200gr ( #2 alloy ) using Win231 with starting grains of 5.4 and max of 6.1. Given the pistol has lighter springs should I start at less than the minimum charge?

 

[ted_dent]

If the load you select will cycle the gun with a standard spring (which is usually 16 pounds) then the same load with a 13 pound recoil spring may subject your gun to some frame battering. I suggest you start with the minimum listed load (5.4 gr. of 231) and start cutting back your loads by 1/3 grain at a time (5.1, 4.8, 4.5, 4.2, etc.). You only need to load about 5 rounds of each. When you start to get FTEs moving back up to the previous load should give you the minimum reliable load you seek.

Reducing the mainspring weight may give you a reduction in trigger pull weight but it will have no effect on feeding or extraction. However, it could affect whether the rounds detonate or not. If you get irregular detonation you would have to increase the mainspring weight. The brand of primer you use can also affect reliable detonation. For example, Federal primers will detonate consistently with a lighter mainspring than harder primers like CCI.

Note that with lighter loads you may notice some case smudging as the case pressure may not be enough to get full obturation of the bullet. However, this may or may not affect accuracy. Only testing with different loads will verify this.

 

[dearslayer]

Perfect...just the info I was looking for. What do you mean by " smudging"?

 

[ted_dent]

Perfect...just the info I was looking for. What do you mean by " smudging"?

"Smudging" is basically a smear of carbon on the case usually around the case mouth. Because light loads do not generate as much pressure as full power loads, when the cartridge is fired the case is not expanded as quickly or completely so a slight amount of burned powder residue (i.e. carbon) escapes from inside the case mouth and is deposited on the outside of the case. It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the load, just that the seal between the case, chamber and bullet is not perfect, allowing for a little powder residue leakage. It may also not have any real affect on accuracy but as with most guns you will have to do a ittle experimentation to find the right combination of powder charge and bullet weight to get optimum accuracy.

 

[dearslayer]

"Smudging" is basically a smear of carbon on the case usually around the case mouth. Because light loads do not generate as much pressure as full power loads, when the cartridge is fired the case is not expanded as quickly or completely so a slight amount of burned powder residue (i.e. carbon) escapes from inside the case mouth and is deposited on the outside of the case. It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the load, just that the seal between the case, chamber and bullet is not perfect, allowing for a little powder residue leakage. It may also not have any real affect on accuracy but as with most guns you will have to do a ittle experimentation to find the right combination of powder charge and bullet weight to get optimum accuracy.

Ok I see now. Well I loaded 5 rounds each of 5.4....5.1....4.8...4.5...and 4.2. Hopefully I'll get time on Tuesday to test them. I'll report back on the result. Thanks again.

 

[dearslayer]

I just happen to be listening to a reloading podcast on my drive to work and it's actually about undercharging as opposed to overcharging a load. They say that under charging can be just as catastrophic has overcharging. If you don't have enough pressure to move the bullet then the pressure doesn't go anywhere until the brass gives or it has enough pressure just to get the bullet into the rifling and all the gases back up and exit through the chamber. I'm quoting this from the podcast. So with the reduced loads that I just made should I be concerned or at what point should I not use those loads? Listening to the podcast now has me wondering

 

[tigrr]

Undercharging is usually referring to rifle. Don't hear much about pistol. Undercharging of pistol is usually a sqib.
I use 5.1 of 231 under my 200gr lee cast/pc bullets. I use lighter springs as well from Freedom Ventures.

 

[tigrr]

5.6 is the hottest I have ever used.

 

[Standardvel]

With a 200gr swc powder coated I load 4.4gr of WST there is a bit of smudging on the brass but it cycles the action reliably with the stock recoil spring(Springfield armory), I do have a reduced main spring installed but that is for trigger pull. That charge is the most accurate in my pistol with the 200gr swc. 1.5”@25yds 2.75@50yds
One thing you will find with a load just heavy enough to function the action reliably is your brass doesn’t fly so far which is nice for retrieval especially in a match situation.

 

[dearslayer]

Ok so I shouldn't fear the lowest charge of 4.2? I guess I should be able to get some idea as to what is going on as I progress from 5.4 to the lowest charge of 4.2.
My brass in my .40SW flies about 20 feet with 4.7 of Win231 but it shoots fine and is fairly accurate with that load. I need to figure out how to make it accurate AND not have the brass fling so far away. !

 

[ted_dent]

Ok so I shouldn't fear the lowest charge of 4.2? I guess I should be able to get some idea as to what is going on as I progress from 5.4 to the lowest charge of 4.2.
My brass in my .40SW flies about 20 feet with 4.7 of Win231 but it shoots fine and is fairly accurate with that load. I need to figure out how to make it accurate AND not have the brass fling so far away. !

I make a habit of loading most of my handgun rounds light because when shooting targets they only have to be going fast enough to punch a hole in a piece of paper so why beat the hell out of your gun to accomplish that. The worst problem I have ever had with light loads are failures to feed as the load doesn't push the slide back far enough to fully eject the empty case. Remember that unlike in a rifle where you might have a 20"-26" or more barrel the load in a handgun cartridge only has to push the bullet 4"-5" for it to exit the gun. I have seen squib loads with no powder whatsoever where the primer alone moved the bullet an inch or two down the barrel so there is zero risk that 4 or 5 grains of a fairly fast powder like 231 would cause a squib. The thing to look for are FTEs. Once you notice irregular extraction occurring you know that the load is too light for the recoil spring you have in the gun. Move back up to the next highest load and you should be good to go. Whether it is the most accurate load can only be determined by experimentation but by then you will know the lowest charge you can successfully use so then you can work your way back up until you reach the sweet spot of good accuracy without overly excessive recoil.

 

[dearslayer]

I make it a habit of loading most of my handgun rounds light because when shooting targets they only have to be going fast enough to punch a hole in a piece of paper so why beat the hell out of your gun to accomplish that. The worst problem I have ever had with light loads are failures to feed as the load doesn't push the slide back far enough to fully eject the empty case. Remember that unlike in a rifle where you might have a 20"-26" or more barrel the load in a handgun cartridge only has to push the bullet 4"-5" for it to exit the gun. I have seen squib loads with no powder whatsoever where the primer alone moved the bullet an inch or two down the barrel so there is zero risk that 4 or 5 grains of a fairly fast powder like 231 would cause a squib. The thing to look for are FTEs. Once you notice irregular extraction occurring you know that the load is too light for the recoil spring you have in the gun. Move back up to the next highest load and you should be good to go. Whether it is the most accurate load can only be determined by experimentation but by then you will know the lowest charge you can successfully use so then you can work your way back up until you reach the sweet spot of good accuracy without overly excessive recoil.

Nicely put. Thanks for the straight forward easy to understand explanation.

 

[Andy]

I make a habit of loading most of my handgun rounds light because when shooting targets they only have to be going fast enough to punch a hole in a piece of paper so why beat the hell out of your gun to accomplish that. The worst problem I have ever had with light loads are failures to feed as the load doesn't push the slide back far enough to fully eject the empty case. Remember that unlike in a rifle where you might have a 20"-26" or more barrel the load in a handgun cartridge only has to push the bullet 4"-5" for it to exit the gun. I have seen squib loads with no powder whatsoever where the primer alone moved the bullet an inch or two down the barrel so there is zero risk that 4 or 5 grains of a fairly fast powder like 231 would cause a squib. The thing to look for are FTEs. Once you notice irregular extraction occurring you know that the load is too light for the recoil spring you have in the gun. Move back up to the next highest load and you should be good to go. Whether it is the most accurate load can only be determined by experimentation but by then you will know the lowest charge you can successfully use so then you can work your way back up until you reach the sweet spot of good accuracy without overly excessive recoil.

There's never zero risk of that. This was in a revolver, but I've seen 0.1 grs below a reliable load result in an almost sure squib - mind you the MV was in the 425 fps range.

4.0 grs might well have the bullet exit the bore every time, but that far below minimum and I'd always be making a check against a squib round, although I suppose a squib would not cycle the action.