.45ACP Test Load Questions

mmattockx

mmattockx

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I finally got out to test a batch of loads for my Norc Commander in .45. I tried 200gr cast SWC and 230gr cast truncated cone bullets, both from Ben Hunchak. The SWC worked pretty well, with 2 feed jams out of 40 rounds. Both occured with lighter charge weights, so I think that problem can easily be solved by running the heavier loads and a bit of polishing of the feed ramp area.

I had major feeding problems with the 230gr TC's, with probably 60-70% of them jamming straight into the feed ramp and catching at the bottom of the barrel portion of the ramp. If I dropped the slide from slide lock or slingshotted it they always fed perfectly, but would jam when the action cycled after a shot. The only group of 5 that functioned without a jam was the final one with a max load of Red Dot.

Any ideas why the 230's had such problems when cycling, but were fine with dropping the slide?

The 200gr SWC's also shot better groups, so I will probably just leave the 230's alone, but I would like to know the root of the problem and why it worked as it did.

Thanks,
Mark
 
You answered your own question when you made mention of the rounds loading propertly from lock open position or by moving the slide to that point on your own. I shoot only 200 gr swc. I still had some fedding issues until I had a smith cut the mouth of the chamber to propertly accept swc.

I find truncated cones fail to feed in several guns. I have tried them out of all my semi autos with the same issue. It's kind of like trying to put a square peg in a round hole. The profile of the truncated cones Cause them to be fat for a longer part of the bullet. So when they hit the feed ramp or chamber they will get stuck. This can be due to the angle of the ramp Options are to seat them a little deeper and keep them hot or get your chamber mouth cut to accept them and or get the load ram polished.
 
My Norc only likes 230gr round nose bullets. I have found the closer I get to 1000 rounds through it, the easier they feed. Norcs are tight at first and after a 1000 rounds there suppose to work smoother. Mine wouldn't feed swc at all. It shaved some off the edge and jammed, probably because the OAL is set long for my STI's. I haven't tried seating the bullets deeper. Most 45s are fussy with tc bullets, the OAL has to be just right for them to feed. I seem to recall 1.222 was my TC magic number. Welcome to the world of trial and error. What works in one 45 doesn't necessarily mean it will work in another 45.
 
If they feed well off of a slingshot, but not from the action cycling, it tells you they aren't cycling the action fast enough. You'll need to use a heavier load, which will probably mean a different powder, if only a max of red-dot will get them to cycle, unless you're otherwise happy with the max red-dot load that is.
Personally, I try to use round nose profiles as much as possible in all my 45 acp rounds. It's just what works best with the least amount of hassle.
 
I forgot to mention my OAL and some other details.

1) The pistol is new, with maybe 300 rounds through it. It feeds 230gr RN FMJ reloads and commercial ammo 100%. I was trying cast for cost reasons and because I need to shoot lead for local steel shoots.

2) OAL for the SWC was 1.170", which left the shoulder on the bullet just proud of the case mouth. Any longer jammed the shoulder into the lands and made extracting a loaded round difficult, as well as exposing the upper lube groove on the bullet. I think I will try 1.180" and see if that helps feeding at all.

3) OAL for the 230gr TC's was 1.180", again to avoid jamming the lands and making extraction of a loaded round difficult.

4) The TC's always jammed on the flat nose where it hit the feed ramp, if it matters. I didn't try a RN because Ben preferred the TC for the longer bearing length it offers at that weight. I will talk to him and see if he has a RN mold available.

I will do a bit more testing at max load levels with the TC's to see if there is any hope and fine tune some loads for the SWC's to see if the feeding issues come up again with light to mid power loads.

I intend to send this pistol off to Gunnar for his Norc tune, but was planning on using it for the summer before it goes away for a couple of months. If nothing else, he should be able to sort the SWC feeding if I can't get it with load tuning.


Thanks for the help,
Mark
 
I run the same TC bullet from Ben as you do, but I do so in my S&W 4506. It has a generous feed ramp on the barrel and will run my reloads all day.

The Norcs all seem to have very steep feed ramps on the barrels and in my experience do not like to feed anything other than RN bullets. That is why I do not own one presently.

I would however try some different powder as others have mentioned. The failure to eject usually means a light charge. I run all my loads in the 80-90% of max load range simply because I do not prefer to shoot light target ammo. That's not why I own and shoot guns, but that is my choice.

Hope this helps.
 
jawsman said:
I would however try some different powder as others have mentioned. The failure to eject usually means a light charge. I run all my loads in the 80-90% of max load range simply because I do not prefer to shoot light target ammo. That's not why I own and shoot guns, but that is my choice.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

I also did a set of loads with WW231 powder and had the same results. Everything ejected fine, the TC's kept hanging up on the feed ramp unless I dropped the slide from lock.

I have talked to Ben and will be trying some 230gr RN bullets he has available. I am sure they will solve the feeding issue, but we will see how they shoot.


Mark
 
CanuckWR said:
I was advised that the Chinese are horrible at making springs. Perhaps a quality recoil spring?

I had similar issues with my norc. Sometimes they are very finicky.
Click to expand...

Good point. I have been thinking about trying a Wolff 20lb spring for the heavy loads, maybe I will pick up an 18lb and 16lb as well and see how they work out.


Mark
 
mmattockx said:
Good point. I have been thinking about trying a Wolff 20lb spring for the heavy loads, maybe I will pick up an 18lb and 16lb as well and see how they work out.


Mark
Click to expand...

I run Wolff 12 lb variable springs in my 1911s but my loads are 230 grain RN plated bullets at 760 +/- fps.
 
mmattockx said:
I had major feeding problems with the 230gr TC's, with probably 60-70% of them jamming straight into the feed ramp and catching at the bottom of the barrel portion of the ramp. If I dropped the slide from slide lock or slingshotted it they always fed perfectly, but would jam when the action cycled after a shot. The only group of 5 that functioned without a jam was the final one with a max load of Red Dot.

Any ideas why the 230's had such problems when cycling, but were fine with dropping the slide?
Click to expand...

I experience similar Failures-to-Feed with the Lee Truncated Cone 230 grain TL. I estimate 2 - 3 % failure rate vs. zero FTFs with Round Nose or SWC heads.

I thought the problem was that the corner was too sharp and even rounded off the corner smooth using a file. Didn't work either and I didn't really want to file thousands of bullets.

IMO, the OAL is too short when using TC heads and the angle of the bullet just as it traverses the ramp/barrel throat will allow the corner of the bullet to catch.

I wanted to try longer OAL but the design of the tumble lube microgrooved bullet will not allow much variation in OAL. To lengthen the OAL, you will have to crimp on the microgrooves and will not give a good crimp.

I will try casting using a lead alloy (2 parts WheelWeight to 1 part linotype) close to Lyman No. 2 (IIRC 5% antimony) to reduce shrinkage. Maybe then the microgroove diameter will be big enough to crimp on.

For now, just to test this "short OAL" theory, I'll load up some longer OAL with my existing batch of small diameter bullets to see if they will jam.
 
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