45lc out of a rifle, whats it capable of

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super7

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I've got a 45lc lever action that I'll likely only ever use to punch paper. Ive only loaded fairly mild loads with it thus far. Curious though as to your thoughts on 45lc out of a rifle. What kind of velocity/ energy is it capable of and what could you hunt with it?
 
Considering an arrow will kill a deer, with good shot placement, any .45 Colt rifle with factory loads will kill a deer at 75 yards or less IMHO. There are lots of better rounds for the job, but if you are doing this for the primitive challenge factor, why not? Lots of people shoot deer with .50 cal patched round ball out of a flintlock inside 75 yards and that's even less powerful.

Shot placement will really matter in the case of most slow and big pistol rounds, so only take ethical shots to the vitals. It's not a high-velocity spire pointed rifle round, after all.

I've hunted with my Uberti .45 Colt rifle, a Winchester 1873 clone, and from some of my stands it is perfectly adequate for those ranges.
 
Muskyhunter1 said:
If you get that kind of speeds. Keeping in mind I get about 1500 fps with a 255 grain cast out of my 38-55, I think you have a round that will work for deer, bear at 75 yards plus or minus.
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I would do deer, bear and moose inside 75yrds with this load. At 1600 fps gives you about 1900 ft-lbs, that will hit with authority.

Hornady XTP 300gr's can be pushed to the same speed as well. Both the 300's and 340's will put a lot of energy on and animal, you would have to use a very strong action for these loads though. No 1873's or any other toggle action rifles.
 
Claven2 said:
Considering an arrow will kill a deer, with good shot placement, any .45 Colt rifle with factory loads will kill a deer at 75 yards or less IMHO. There are lots of better rounds for the job, but if you are doing this for the primitive challenge factor, why not? Lots of people shoot deer with .50 cal patched round ball out of a flintlock inside 75 yards and that's even less powerful.

Shot placement will really matter in the case of most slow and big pistol rounds, so only take ethical shots to the vitals. It's not a high-velocity spire pointed rifle round, after all.

I've hunted with my Uberti .45 Colt rifle, a Winchester 1873 clone, and from some of my stands it is perfectly adequate for those ranges.
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I own a caplock in 50 PRB, I can safely load 110 gr of FFFG powder under it.
 
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Basic federal Champion (blue box) .45 Colt hard lead semi-wadcutters shoot a 225 grain bullet at about 1120 fps from a 20" barrel rifle. That delivers 627 ft-lbw. Not a barn burner, but it will kill a deer - and that's the most mild factory load I can locate (not including down-loaded cowboy action ammo).

.50 round ball, assuming .495" diameter and pure lead (heaviest option) is a 180 grain projectile. 110gn in a .50 is a very very hot load. According to gunnersden.com, it should only be used in modern "magnum" muzzle loader barrels. a 28" 1:48 barrel can, theoretically drive this bullet to 1963fps and 1500 ft-lbs. Not too many guys will attempt that with a traditional flintlock trade gun. I would not feel safe doing so. This is actually the max load recommended in my modern CVA Accura V2 for jacketed sabots!

80gn FFG is more typical doing about 1700fps delivering 1155 ft-lbs from a 28" barrel. If you use a 20" barrel, the difference is much less. when you drop to a .45 cal RB, the .45 Colt comes out ahead.

All that to say, keep your .45 Colt hunting to short range and aim for the same parts of the deer you zero in on when shooting arrows.
 
Claven2 said:
Basic federal Champion (blue box) .45 Colt hard lead semi-wadcutters shoot a 225 grain bullet at about 1120 fps from a 20" barrel rifle. That delivers 627 ft-lbw. Not a barn burner, but it will kill a deer - and that's the most mild factory load I can locate (not including down-loaded cowboy action ammo).

.50 round ball, assuming .495" diameter and pure lead (heaviest option) is a 180 grain projectile. 110gn in a .50 is a very very hot load. According to gunnersden.com, it should only be used in modern "magnum" muzzle loader barrels. a 28" 1:48 barrel can, theoretically drive this bullet to 1963fps and 1500 ft-lbs. Not too many guys will attempt that with a traditional flintlock trade gun. I would not feel safe doing so. This is actually the max load recommended in my modern CVA Accura V2 for jacketed sabots!

80gn FFG is more typical doing about 1700fps delivering 1155 ft-lbs from a 28" barrel. If you use a 20" barrel, the difference is much less. when you drop to a .45 cal RB, the .45 Colt comes out ahead.

All that to say, keep your .45 Colt hunting to short range and aim for the same parts of the deer you zero in on when shooting arrows.
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Gunnersden.com should update their information perhaps. The Browning Mountain Rifle has been around for a very long time. 110 gr of FFFG is sourced from Sam Fadalla as well as Browning themselves. You brought up 50 PRB not me. No-one else said it should be dropped down to 45 caliber either. Except you, again.
 
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If you look at the original post I made that you responded to, I specifically was talking about PRB in a flintlock. I'm not debating whether a modern inline can outperform anaemic factory .45 Colt ;)
 
.45 Colt (or Long Colt) is apparently loaded pretty hot, but standard loads are not because they have to consider all of the older guns in .45 LC that cannot take high pressure loads. Paco Kelly, a lever gun enthusiast, sings praise of the .45 LC as a round that can apparently supercede the .44 magnum in power when hand loaded.

The article can be found here
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm

The neat thing about this method is you can take the down range velocities all the way out to your longest range and compare them with the down range velocities of other rounds, calibers and see the changes compared to each other. The 45 long Colt at 100 yards has slowed to 1600 FPS and the killing level has dropped to almost KS of 63 from 79. Where the 30-30 load has dropped to 1930FPS to a KS 46 from 53.4.....that should make a few yell ‘foul...can’t be’, but it is! And from my use of these 45 loads in the field for years on large game....I can tell you it is.....! As many gunwriters have stated over the years, a 44 mag or heavy loaded 45 long Colt fired from a rifle is more powerful than a 30-30 at 100 yards....actually they are more powerful than the great 30-30, at a lot further than 100 yards.....

Pushing a 335 grain cast WFN at 1800 fps is around top end for a 1892 action for me. That puts the KS at almost 86! So this gives a good picture of what a so called lowly 45 long Colt can really do. What a lion killer that 335 grain 45 long Colt load would be. The Win 94s and Marlins in 45 long Colt can push a 330 to 340 grain cast bullet to 1600 FPS and a KS of 76 and that’s no sleaze...because 40+ caliber bullets of this weight will penetrate incredible distances thru animals, with great disruptive force to tissue and bone. Except for upper bullet weight limit, because of bullet length and the less powder room in the 44 mag case and the 45 case....I see little difference in both up to 300+ grains. As long as shape, material of the bullet construction, and the velocity are the same. The slight differences in B.C. (Bullet Coefficient) make little down range differences between the two. Going to bullet weights of 325+grains and higher, begin the power level changes in favor of the 45 over the 44 mag...but as said is that potential power really needed in normal hunting in the lower states...Alaska yes, Africa fine...and it’s nice to have the potential if needed.
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I laugh at how the guns that are apparently powerful enough for deer etc. seem to get bigger and bigger. I bet in another 30 years, 30-06 will be minimum for deer with some heavy bullets.
 
It can be loaded that way. But from the factory the ammo is generally pretty low pressure.
Buffalobore makes a .45 LC that goes 1700 FPS and over 2,000 ft/lbs of energy from the muzzle. That's a beefy round.
But for the most part, especially factory loadings...30-30 has more power.
 
super7 said:
I've got a 45lc lever action that I'll likely only ever use to punch paper. Ive only loaded fairly mild loads with it thus far. Curious though as to your thoughts on 45lc out of a rifle. What kind of velocity/ energy is it capable of and what could you hunt with it?
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You'll have no problem with Newfoundland Bog Donkeys if you can get within 100 yards of them and you use a good cast bullet. Lots of jacketed bullets will be built for handgun velocities and, given the impossibility of handgun hunting up here, the odds that you can source proper hunting bullets is pretty low. But it will do the trick, no problem. Just don't start thinking that it's something that it isn't and you won't have a problem.
 
If one has a Rossi, Uberti or Miroku/Winchester rifle on the M92 action, then loading to .44 magnum pressure levels is no big deal, but you'll have to use brass suitable for .45 Colt+P and better. Starline brass I know is rated for hotter loads. Cor-Bon and others offer heavy duty brass as well, but contact them first to make sure. For full-on .45 Colt loads, I use .454 Casull cases trimmed back .100" & they last for more reloads than .45 Colt brass.( One should reduce max. Colt loads 10% when using the much thicker .454 brass and watch for signs of excess pressure.)

My standard load using Starline .45 Colt brass pushes a 255 gr. hard cast boolit at a leisurely 1200 fps. from the 12" barrel of my Rossi baby carbine, but is more than ample for deer inside of 75 yds. and is too fookin' funny on coons & feral cats.;)

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freddyfour said:
I would do deer, bear and moose inside 75yrds with this load. At 1600 fps gives you about 1900 ft-lbs, that will hit with authority.

Hornady XTP 300gr's can be pushed to the same speed as well. Both the 300's and 340's will put a lot of energy on and animal, you would have to use a very strong action for these loads though. No 1873's or any other toggle action rifles.
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x2. My Winchester 1892 octagon takedown shoots these no problem ( the 300 grain XTP's).
 
The Rossi M92 as an example, can be chambered in 454 Casull, which operates at a SAAMI max of 65K psi, so it all depends on the action strength of the gun in which you are firing it.

That said, with careful handloading with bullets weighing up to 300 grs, you can closely match "Springfield Trapdoor" muzzle velocities in a strong rifle like the Rossi M92.

No-one ever calls the 45-70, even at the low end of Springfield Trapdoor pressures and muzzle velocities, a "75 yd gun".

I have a Rossi M92 in 45 Colt. I have loaded 300 gr cast bullets to 1500+ fps using Starline Brass and full or near full cases of "non-traditional" powders like SR4759, H4198 and WC-735 (a "fast" H335).
 
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nw mb said:
...feral cats? ...did someone just say feral cats?

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(...there's a few articles on the interweb that claim 255 grain cast at 1500 fps out of 45 acp rifles...no slouch of a round)
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I've launched a bunch of 200 gr. hardcast out of my .45 ACP Enfield at 1300 fps. using Federal & Starline brass. I have no need to push the envelope on pressures beyond this point. It makes a satisfying "whop" on cats & coons when ya hit 'em in the wet spot.;)

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