460 wby mag vs 416 rigby vs458 lott
- Thread starter quarterman
- Start date
I have not shot a .460 Weatherby but I do own a .450 Rigby which is essentially the same cartridge minus the belt and loaded to slightly lower pressures.
The .460 is without a doubt one of the most effective stopping rifles in existence, if you can handle the recoil. While all three cartridges you mentioned are great dangerous game cartridges the .460, if you can handle it, it is in my opinion a better dangerous game calibre that the .416 or the .458. If you can't handle comfortably enough to shoot well then it is obviously a worse choice. So it is a very personal decision.
I agree with the suggestion that you try it first before buying. If that isn't possible the .416 may be a safer bet. It is still an awesome and powerful cartridge, and is arguably better as an all around rifle for mixed dangerous game and plainsgame hunting. The added benefit of the .416 in my opinion if you are buying without trying it first is that most people can learn to handle a .416 fairly well, the same is not necessarily true for a .460 weatherby.
Also, if you are serious about getting a big bore rifle, you may benefit from reading Pierre Van Der Walt's book "African Dangerous Game Cartridges", it is a great source of information, the best on the subject that I know of.
The .460 is without a doubt one of the most effective stopping rifles in existence, if you can handle the recoil. While all three cartridges you mentioned are great dangerous game cartridges the .460, if you can handle it, it is in my opinion a better dangerous game calibre that the .416 or the .458. If you can't handle comfortably enough to shoot well then it is obviously a worse choice. So it is a very personal decision.
I agree with the suggestion that you try it first before buying. If that isn't possible the .416 may be a safer bet. It is still an awesome and powerful cartridge, and is arguably better as an all around rifle for mixed dangerous game and plainsgame hunting. The added benefit of the .416 in my opinion if you are buying without trying it first is that most people can learn to handle a .416 fairly well, the same is not necessarily true for a .460 weatherby.
Also, if you are serious about getting a big bore rifle, you may benefit from reading Pierre Van Der Walt's book "African Dangerous Game Cartridges", it is a great source of information, the best on the subject that I know of.
I have a Weatherby Mark V Deluxe in .460 WBY MAG. It's not in the wood stock anymore..........
Have it in a McMillan Weatherby stock. Made in Japan era with magnaporting.
I would call it "fun" to shoot. The kids get a laugh from a distance.
Have it in a McMillan Weatherby stock. Made in Japan era with magnaporting.
I would call it "fun" to shoot. The kids get a laugh from a distance.
If you are having to rely on the brake to shoot it then it brings other issues in play like increased hearing damage. You will have to wear hearing protection if you leave it on when you take it into the field. With respect to cost to shoot the 458 lott is much more practical. You are looking at $3-$4 a piece for 416 and 460 brass. The lott you can get for under $2. It has more than enough oomf for dangerous game and enough recoil make you smile when you pull the trigger. That what I would recommend out of the three but ... if you want a 460 I can understand that 
bigborefan
Regular
- Location
- Kawartha Lakes, ON
The actual cost of brass for any should be divided by the number of firings you expect to get before tossing them. If 10X, for example, then the actual cost per firing would be the initial cost divided by 10: about 30 to 40 cents per firing. The bullets will be the most costly item. They can run $2 each, and you can't reuse them!
Bob
www.bigbores.ca
Bob
www.bigbores.ca
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
The Rigby is probably the most versatile of the three. Shoots flat enough,hits hard enough and won't beat the snot out of you like the 460 will. Not may, will. The 460 is pretty much unmanageable for all but a few shooters and recoil that stout is pretty much unlearnable.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
I would argue that the .460 Weatherby is the most versatile .45 caliber rifle you are likely to stumble across. The fact that the majority of riflemen can't manage it is beside the point, the cartridge is still capable of doing things its little brothers cannot, and easily doing what they bust seams to do. Besides, it wouldn't seem likely that one would persist in shooting 500s at 2700 if you could get away with shooting 350 gr TSXs at 2800. A bigger consideration is the limited magazine capacity as a result of the single stack MK-V. You will probably never come across a smoother feeding rifle, but it is a 3 shooter. The biggest problem I see with the beast is the cost of the brass; .375 Ultra brass can be had at a fraction of the cost of .460 Weatherby. A .458 Ultra (.460 G&A) has some impressive potential, bettering the Lott by nearly 100 fps, and a bottleneck cartridge will feed better from a staggered magazine than will either the Lott or Winchester versions of the .458. So while I've lusted after the .460 G&A, not so much the Weatherby. The flip side is that you can buy a .460 Weatherby off the rack, while the G&A is a custom rig that will take months to acquire one ordered, and the off the rack rifle will be less expensive than the custom rig.
I like the .416 Rigby, and IMHO it represents the most powerful round that can be used as a general purpose cartridge. But I view the .416 as a .375 class cartridge rather than a .458 class cartridge.
I like the .416 Rigby, and IMHO it represents the most powerful round that can be used as a general purpose cartridge. But I view the .416 as a .375 class cartridge rather than a .458 class cartridge.
Get a 470 Mbogo or a 577 T Rex or 585 Nyati. Experience some serious recoil. - dan
I really like my #1 tropical .458 W.M. with the Hornady 500 SP it hits hard, but mostly I shoot the Hornady 350 RN that can be pushed to 2500 fps but I load it at 2300. The only downside is the gun is very heavy to carry all day. I can also say by first hand experience a 500 grain SP at 2100 fps will drop a white tail in it's tracks shot broadside through both shoulders at 60 yards.
I've shot a 460 wby with out the break but it did have a mercury reduction system and it was still uncomfortable I would've compared it to my 416 Ruger of the time. If you got the money to feed the beast all the power to ya but I think i'll stick with my 375 ruger thank you!
I'm on my third 416 Rigby, had a 416 Taylor, 450 Ackley, several 458s and my double .470 NE, as well as my 50 BMG. I've fired everything up to a 4 bore double, including the 378 and 460 Wby, and a 50 cal on the 460 as well as a 50 cal on a rimless 577 NE case. I have several dislikes on the subject of the big Wbys, and Boomer hit on the biggest one, belt diameter vs magazine capacity. The 450 Rigby is a superior design for this reason, as is it's slightly smaller cousin the 450 RUM.
The boys of years past who were able to do significant ballistics testing on elephant and other super big dangerous game, determined the maximum impact velocity for a solid bullet to give the greatest straightline penetration to be no greater than 2400 fps. Weatherby used to advertise their 500 gn solid load at 2700 fps and several PHs found that load to not be reliable 100% of the time. When using a cartridge like this for back up and defense the impact velocity is virtually the muzzle velocity and on a steel jacketed lead cored solid, 2700 fps would almost tear it apart. A lot of riveting problems and bending problems as well as complete fracture issues, hence the new advertised velocity of the 460 Wby 500 gn solid of 2550 fps. It is still not favored by PHs because of it's previous reputation, as well as recoil recovery time. A 577 double can be recovered and the second shot aimed and fired before the same shooter even gets the 460 reloaded and recovered from recoil, a serious consideration when lives are at stake and one is hunting things that kill back. It is also my opinion that once you get into calibers of 45 and up you are no longer into multi purpose cartridges, but into specific duty guns and cartridges designed for "up close and personal" use. When using a gun as designed for this purpose, control and repeat shots are as much a concern as is raw power.
Don't get me wrong, the 378 and 460 Wbys are fun guns and will detach retinas if one tries too hard and shoots too many shots at a time, but the 460 really doesn't have a defined place in the hunting fields, kinda too much of a good thing. The 378 is really the ultimate medium as far as trajectory and hitting power goes but again suffers from 2 shot magazine capacity and does so little over the 375 RUM that one needn't sacrifice the 3 or 4 shot magazine to step up to the 378 over the 375 RUM.
I have just designed a cartridge based on the 416 Ruger necked out to 458 with the shoulder improved to 40 deg and moved slightly forward. Dave Kiff is making the reamer set as I type this and I have purchased a donor rifle in the form of an old Rem custom shop 700 in 458 WM, in beautiful condition. According to my calculations it will equal or exceed the 458 Lott without the belt and work through a 300 WM length action, without seating bullets too deep. I gave this reamer a significant throat length so as to use homogenous solids without sacrificing powder capacity. This should be IMHO the ultimate DG rifle (without entering the debate of PF vs CRF) and should drive 500 gn softs and solids at 2400 fps easily and at pressures that won't lock up the rifle in 55 deg heat as I have experienced in the game fields of Zambia.
The Rigby need no more applause than it has already, it is a very versatile medium and moves up to dangerous game very well, as well as using lighter bullets at velocities that make taking game out to 400 mtrs a very real possibility. I think every one should have at least 2 375 H&Hs and one 416 Rigby. Taylor wrote "the 416 Rigby kills elephant and other dangerous game all out of proportion to it's caliber and bullet weight, and is an excellent choice for a medium bore which may need to be used on dangerous game" not an exact quote but paraphrases his thoughts on the Rigby.
The boys of years past who were able to do significant ballistics testing on elephant and other super big dangerous game, determined the maximum impact velocity for a solid bullet to give the greatest straightline penetration to be no greater than 2400 fps. Weatherby used to advertise their 500 gn solid load at 2700 fps and several PHs found that load to not be reliable 100% of the time. When using a cartridge like this for back up and defense the impact velocity is virtually the muzzle velocity and on a steel jacketed lead cored solid, 2700 fps would almost tear it apart. A lot of riveting problems and bending problems as well as complete fracture issues, hence the new advertised velocity of the 460 Wby 500 gn solid of 2550 fps. It is still not favored by PHs because of it's previous reputation, as well as recoil recovery time. A 577 double can be recovered and the second shot aimed and fired before the same shooter even gets the 460 reloaded and recovered from recoil, a serious consideration when lives are at stake and one is hunting things that kill back. It is also my opinion that once you get into calibers of 45 and up you are no longer into multi purpose cartridges, but into specific duty guns and cartridges designed for "up close and personal" use. When using a gun as designed for this purpose, control and repeat shots are as much a concern as is raw power.
Don't get me wrong, the 378 and 460 Wbys are fun guns and will detach retinas if one tries too hard and shoots too many shots at a time, but the 460 really doesn't have a defined place in the hunting fields, kinda too much of a good thing. The 378 is really the ultimate medium as far as trajectory and hitting power goes but again suffers from 2 shot magazine capacity and does so little over the 375 RUM that one needn't sacrifice the 3 or 4 shot magazine to step up to the 378 over the 375 RUM.
I have just designed a cartridge based on the 416 Ruger necked out to 458 with the shoulder improved to 40 deg and moved slightly forward. Dave Kiff is making the reamer set as I type this and I have purchased a donor rifle in the form of an old Rem custom shop 700 in 458 WM, in beautiful condition. According to my calculations it will equal or exceed the 458 Lott without the belt and work through a 300 WM length action, without seating bullets too deep. I gave this reamer a significant throat length so as to use homogenous solids without sacrificing powder capacity. This should be IMHO the ultimate DG rifle (without entering the debate of PF vs CRF) and should drive 500 gn softs and solids at 2400 fps easily and at pressures that won't lock up the rifle in 55 deg heat as I have experienced in the game fields of Zambia.
The Rigby need no more applause than it has already, it is a very versatile medium and moves up to dangerous game very well, as well as using lighter bullets at velocities that make taking game out to 400 mtrs a very real possibility. I think every one should have at least 2 375 H&Hs and one 416 Rigby. Taylor wrote "the 416 Rigby kills elephant and other dangerous game all out of proportion to it's caliber and bullet weight, and is an excellent choice for a medium bore which may need to be used on dangerous game" not an exact quote but paraphrases his thoughts on the Rigby.
Wow, lots of info and a ton of experience here. Thanks for the lesson, I'm not planning to buy a gun of any of thses calibers anytime soon, but as a newbie gun owner it's a pleasure to read informative threads such as this.
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C-fbmi...
Thank you so much for that input, bro. that was really interesting and informative… I have no use for any such rifle but reading that was very entertaining. thank you so much for sharing your experience and your expertise! greatly appreciated on here. just awesome. Just reading that took me back to reading a book, I forget it's name, by Elmer Keith. thanks brother!
Thank you so much for that input, bro. that was really interesting and informative… I have no use for any such rifle but reading that was very entertaining. thank you so much for sharing your experience and your expertise! greatly appreciated on here. just awesome. Just reading that took me back to reading a book, I forget it's name, by Elmer Keith. thanks brother!
Whisky Creek
Member
- Location
- Yukon, Canada
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