5 -10 Shot Groups - Let's see' em And how Important

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gap338

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I've had much discussion lately with peers about group size in the assessment of a rifles potential accuracy

Ive searched this site and many others and have found little info on the topic

A few articles I've found discuss the merit of 5,7 and even 10 round groups and why 3 round groups are misleading

https://precisionrifle.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/statistics-shooting-and-the-myth-of-the-three-shot-group.pdf
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/279218_The_Trouble_With_3_Shot_Groups.html
http://www.geoffrey-kolbe.com/articles/rimfire_accuracy/group_statistics.htm

I invite comments and even pictures of your best 5 to 10 shot groups and what rifles and cartridges you used. I'd like to see what our fellow forum members are achieving and what people view as a standard with the precision rifle; both custom and factory (100 yards or meters).

Thanks in advance for your comments
 
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Not exactly precision but good for what the gun is. 5th shot is under the tape measure.

100 yards

T97 FTU
Bushnell AR 3-9

75 grain hornady match ammo
Was consistently ~1.5 moa
 
Thanks r204
I did see that one thread; I was hoping to invite discussion on the use of 5 and more-so 7 to 10 rounds groups and what people on the forum see as fair, acceptable and outstanding. I don't want to impose any strict requirements on what pictures are posted. I wanted to see overall how many shooters value the higher-round groups. I appreciate everyones responses.
 
The purpose of those threads is to prove that the rifle and the driver behind are consistant that is why you have to shoot 5 groups of 5 rounds each. Posting a pic of one group be 5 , 7, or 10 rounds really doesn't prove anything.
 
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My scoped hunting rifles have been sighted in for the 3-shot @ 100 yds standard and my iron sighted guns for 3-shots @ 25 yards.
Can count the misses on big game in over 50 years of hunting on the fingers of 1 hand and still have fingers to spare.
Haven't seen the uncovered bottom of my jumbo sized freezer since I bought it.
Always full of game meat.
 
Here are some 5 shot groups from load development with my 350 rem mag. You can see where I found my accuarcy node. If you subtract the two furthest shots from the larger groups you could be fooled regarding the accuracy of those loads.

IMG_20130323_110428_zpsdf65e3b9-1.jpg


I shoot my groups round robin to eliminate atmospheric changes, changes in fouling, or changes in blood sugar from skewing my results. Also if you shoot 10-3shot groups in a round robin style then compare point of impact or overlay the targets you're going to have reliable results. The downfall of 3 shot groups is shooting one or two small groups and thinking you have consistent results.

I think method is important and using an aggregate of 5 or 10 groups is much better than judging accuracy by a single group whether it's 5, 7, or 10 rounds.

Read the technical articles on Mystic Precision about load development. There's a lot of gems in there from someone who needs confidence in their loads on competition day.

Willy
 
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How consistent of a shooter are you? Many shooters do not have the endurance to shoot a 10rds groups without inducing error into the target.

How good are your rests? Or your shooting table?

How good is your scope?

How good is your wind reading skills?

Mirage reading skills?

Ammo reloading tech and skills?

How well did you prep your rifle - factory or custom?

There is no answer to your question simply because the range of shooter skill and equipment negates ANY relevance to your testing as a comparative measure across all possible combos. Choose a process that you and your friends feel works. Then create your own yardstick to compare future performance against.

Also COMPETE.... there is no better way to prove a system - shooter, complete shooting system, ammo. Competition can be against your personal goals or in formal matches.

if you feel you have a 1/2 min gun AND are a 1/2 min shooter, set up targets and shoot groups. Can you average 1/2 min over a large sample size of shots? Do that 1/2 min 25rds/5 group test. It will be very enlightening.

When you can call a V bull (1/2 min circle) at 900m or 1000yds when you break a shot, your system is working pretty darn good.

As to what is good performance? If you want to win in F class, your system better be able to deliver 1/2 min (2/3 min max) performance at the longest distance you want to compete over the largest number of shoots your relay and match day requires. Otherwise, you will be unable to adjust for the winds and have any chance of centering your group on the V/5 ring (x/10 ring for NRA targets).

In Canada, that is usually a 17rds relay - around 56rds for the day give or take. In the US, it might be 22 to 35rds in the scorching heat per relay and up to 105rds in a day.

Yes, unlimited sighters are possible in the US and some shooters actually take advantage of this.

Jerry
 
I typically just go by 5 round, since I reload lots of 10 for each load (while in load development). The typical case holds 50, so I have 5 lots of 10 in .5 grain increments. I'm not too scientific about it but I shoot 5 groups of 5 from each lot, wait a bit, then repeat. Then for example if the first paper I shot with 5 rounds of 41.5gr RL-15 matches the second one with 41.5gr RL-15 then at least I feel consistent. I'm very much an amateur at this point, of course. The best I've achieved thus far was .85" 5 round group @ 200yd (eosc's max range) but I have yet to do it consistently.
 
A nice 10'er is hard to do but feels great when you pull it off. 308 tactical rifle, prone bipod.

 
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