5-stand driving me crazy!

ninepointer

ninepointer

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Central Ontario
On my best days I am a 18-22 skeet shooter, but I'm totally confounded by this 5-stand range I've started shooting. My best is 10! The 30 yard crossers are killing me the most. I believe I know what my issues are (technique and mental of course :bangHead:) and I'm working on them.

My question, however, is about my reloads. I know, I know, my ammo should be the least of my worries, but an extra break or two would be nice! :)

I'm currently loading for under 1300 fps, 3/4 oz. in 20 ga. and 7/8 oz. in 12 ga. Its easy on the shoulder and it makes my supply of powder and shot last longer, but am I unnecessarily handicapping myself? Or should I just shut up about loads and focus on my shooting? LOL!

Thanks all! :)
 
ninepointer said:
On my best days I am a 18-22 skeet shooter, but I'm totally confounded by this 5-stand range I've started shooting. My best is 10! The 30 yard crossers are killing me the most. I believe I know what my issues are (technique and mental of course :bangHead:) and I'm working on them.

My question, however, is about my reloads. I know, I know, my ammo should be the least of my worries, but an extra break or two would be nice! :)

I'm currently loading for under 1300 fps, 3/4 oz. in 20 ga. and 7/8 oz. in 12 ga. Its easy on the shoulder and it makes my supply of powder and shot last longer, but am I unnecessarily handicapping myself? Or should I just shut up about loads and focus on my shooting? LOL!

Thanks all! :)
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You are correct, I can't imagine how bad your reloads would have to be for them to be the reason you are not breaking 30 yard crossers no matter what choke you are using.
 
Even if your pattern was weak at those distances its very statistically unlikely the you are having 10/25 fly through your patterns.

7/8ths ounce is lots of shot.

5 stand can be a hard game.
 
I run the 5 stand at our local club and I find the best way to shoot it is to have faith the next target will be were it should be. by saying that I mean in pairs shoot each as if it was a single and trust that target will be waiting for you after you shoot the first where you know it will be. I see a lot of guys stop their gun on pairs to look for 2nd bird
 
stubblejumper said:
I suggest that you go to an actual sporting clays field and shoot a round or two. After that, five stand will seem much easier.:)
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I couldn't agree more! I shoot both 20g and 12g. My 20g seems to give me a hair more confidence in sporting clays. Crap can it be tough sometimes though! Still better than a bad day at work ;)
 
ninepointer said:
On my best days I am a 18-22 skeet shooter, but I'm totally confounded by this 5-stand range I've started shooting. My best is 10! The 30 yard crossers are killing me the most. I believe I know what my issues are (technique and mental of course :bangHead:) and I'm working on them.

My question, however, is about my reloads. I know, I know, my ammo should be the least of my worries, but an extra break or two would be nice! :)

I'm currently loading for under 1300 fps, 3/4 oz. in 20 ga. and 7/8 oz. in 12 ga. Its easy on the shoulder and it makes my supply of powder and shot last longer, but am I unnecessarily handicapping myself? Or should I just shut up about loads and focus on my shooting? LOL!

Thanks all! :)
Click to expand...

As already mentioned pattern your gun and at 30 yard and further. Also pick up some Winchester AA TrAAcker shells. They should help diagnose where your shot is going. I always keep a couple on my pouch for when nothing is working right. My guess is you need to lead a lot more on those crossers.
 
Skeet and trap are pretty much the same everywhere but sporting clays courses and five-stand layouts are different and can range from easy to very challenging.

Differing distances, directions and target speeds mean different leads, gun hold and eye hold points. I wouldn't worry too much about my loads if the longest target is 30 yards but would start trying different tactics.

If your club will allow it try shooting skeet centre stations from longer distances in increments of 5, 10 and 15 yards. You'll likely be very surprised at how much more lead is required to consistently break the targets. If not start leading that 30 yard crosser lots more.
 
I believe Claybuster is on the right track on this one.
If your game has been mainly skeet, your longest lead is 4 feet at station 4.
I know from painful personal experience that a skeet shooter may have trouble allowing himself to put any more than a 4 foot lead on any target regardless of distance, angle or speed. In my case, when I got to 4 feet, my brain said to pull the trigger. It took me quite a while before I could put longer leads on 5 stand and sporting targets.
I would suggest trying to force yourself to say double your leads on those longer targets that you are missing....You will be amazed when you break one and it will be a game changer for you.
 
Pete G said:
I believe Claybuster is on the right track on this one.
If your game has been mainly skeet, your longest lead is 4 feet at station 4.
I know from painful personal experience that a skeet shooter may have trouble allowing himself to put any more than a 4 foot lead on any target regardless of distance, angle or speed. In my case, when I got to 4 feet, my brain said to pull the trigger. It took me quite a while before I could put longer leads on 5 stand and sporting targets.
I would suggest trying to force yourself to say double your leads on those longer targets that you are missing....You will be amazed when you break one and it will be a game changer for you.
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How did you know that my brain screams "SHOOT!" at a 4-foot lead?:d I think its time to try the "sheet of plywood" lead, but it will be tough for a swing-through shooter like me, since trees obscure almost half of the target's trajectory. It a tough course; the long-time members tell me no one has EVER shot 25.
 
YEah, some of the longer shots are surprising when you look at the delay time from firing to exploding the clay. 8 foot leads are not uncommon on farther shots. Also, use a choke a little tighter than skeet. Use IC on the lower barrel (first shot) and LM on the upper barrel. Also, you can vary your ammo (upper and lower). Use 9 shot on close targets and 7.5 on far ones. This is more applicable to 5 stand.

But generally, you will have to learn to compensate for lateral AND vertical movement of the clay.
 
the spank said:
I have only shot 5-stand once and shot a 24/25. I sure got some funny looks. I don't think they believed it was my first try? Oh well.......
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Spank, That was an awesome score for 5 stand for just about anyone , let alone for anyone whose normal game is Trap or Skeet. You are either an excellent all round shooter or you had a lucky day.....Please try it again somewhere and report back to those us who are struggling to convert from Skeet/Trap to Sporting !!
 
ninepointer said:
On my best days I am a 18-22 skeet shooter, but I'm totally confounded by this 5-stand range I've started shooting. My best is 10! The 30 yard crossers are killing me the most. I believe I know what my issues are (technique and mental of course :bangHead:) and I'm working on them.

My question, however, is about my reloads. I know, I know, my ammo should be the least of my worries, but an extra break or two would be nice! :)

I'm currently loading for under 1300 fps, 3/4 oz. in 20 ga. and 7/8 oz. in 12 ga. Its easy on the shoulder and it makes my supply of powder and shot last longer, but am I unnecessarily handicapping myself? Or should I just shut up about loads and focus on my shooting? LOL!

Thanks all! :)
Click to expand...

What size shot are you using, some distances shot size can make all the difference with shot drop and breaking patterns as small shot is better up close and 7.5 is better further out i have found.
 
One thing that has worked well for me on those kind of crossers is a technique called "pull away lead". What I do is I point the gun at the target for a second just to let my brain get the speed and trajectory and WHILE STILL FOCUSING MY EYES ON THE BIRD, I pull away the gun. Your brain will trigger the shot just when you'll have the proper amount of lead. On a skeet range, I focus on the bird and try to mount the gun forward more in a kind of sustained lead method. But don't ask me how much lead I give, I usually don't know. My eyes are so focus on the bird that I see the barrel only in my peripheral vision. I let my subconsious do the maths.

Our subcouscious is a thousand times better than our conscious when it's time to shoot a shotgun. Everybody remembers their best shots on a flushing grouse or a fast duck when all we do is a fast swing and shot. No time to do the maths! We also see skeet shooters missing easy station 1 and 7 birds but just smoking the doubles. They stop calculate with their conscious and let the subconscious do the work when the time is short.

At 30 yards, I would also shot them with minimally a Mod choke.

Your shotgun should also fit you correctly, if you want it to be in correlation with your eyes and your hands.

It's my advice. I'm not the best shot in Canada but I have an average this season of 23 on the skeet range and a few 25's under the belt. When I miss, it's when my eyes leave the bird and look down the barrel for a fraction of time. Sometimes you'll get lucky and kill the bird when looking down the barrel but it's a hit and miss situation.
 
The clays game is 99% mental. If you can, get out and shoot those 30 yard crossers over and over until you've got the mental picture burned in and your sub-conscience takes over. And when you've got that, hit some angles, and when you've got those figured out move back to 35 and, if you can, then to 40. I'm talking a flat or two of ammo at every distance over several sessions because it's very hard to figure things out when you only get to see a particular target presentation a few times and are feeling mentally beat up by the score in your round.

In my experience at missing... and I will go out on a limb and offer myself up as a sort of expert on the topic... the more you think about lead, gun speed, ammo, chokes etc, the worse it gets. And when you see that clay coming and think "I can't hit that", you most certainly won't. Screw in an IC or LM choke, check your ammo on the patterning board at a few ranges then go shoot... lots.

Lastly, watch out for compound leads that the sporting clays and 5 stand course will throw at you - those crossers may be dropping too.;)
 
Two pieces of advice from some proven shooters.

George Digweed, the best shotgun shooter in the world advises:"If you miss, double your lead, if you miss again, shoot right at it". In other words don't do the same thing over and over again. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is a sure sign of insanity.

Anthony Materese advises on crossers: "Come from behind. If it's doing 30, you do 31, and pull the trigger as you pass the bird.". That has been the best advice for me.

Gill Ash has a great YouTube video on matching gun speed to bird speed thereby slowing the bird down.
 
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