.50 BMG question.

Kevin M.

Kevin M.

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Edmonton, Alberta
Alright, here is one I just need an answer for.

A few weeks ago at my local range, I missed by a few minutes seeing sombody shooting their custom built .50 BMG bolt gun being fired at our clubs 300 meter range.

I was chatting with the fellow who owned the rifle, and he stated that he was not going to bother shooting with his rifle at 300 meters again because the groupings he was getting were on average just a shade over 2 and a half feet center to center.

Now, being a relative newcomer to the shooting sports, with only a year of shooting and reloading under my belt, I have learned lots of things that have surprised me, and I will probably learn loads more. This guy gave me what I think is one of the lamest excuse I have ever heard. He said somthing along the lines of; "The ballistics of the .50 BMG do not allow the bullet to stabilize in the air until past 400 meters, that is why the grouping is so large. Out past 700 I usually have no problems.":confused:

This was too much for me, so I called him out on it, saying that that made no sense. It goes against everything I thought I knew about the ballistics of ammunition, and common sense as well. Hopefully I am right in thinking that everything that guy told me about ballistics is pure hogwash.

Let me know if I am wrong and have some sort of massive misunderstanding of everything I thought I knew. :p
 
Hogwash sounds about right to me. Groups that big, even in the worst rifle ever, would still likely be a result of operator error. Sounds liek he was jerking the trigger like he thought it was something else.
 
I've also shot the Steyer HS-50, and I can tell you my groups were NOT 2 (two) feet.
Whatever that guy told you, forget it. It sounds like he should be learning to shoot a .22, before a .50 BMG.
I was getting around 3/8s group at 260 yards. Also, why he is jerking the trigger on a .50 BMG is beyond me, inless of course he wasn't using a muzzle brake - I doubt it though.
 
Bullets don't fly two feet apart at 300 and then suck back together at 1000.

The guy can't shoot, can't load or has a POS for a gun - or a combination of all 3.
 
His scope mount was probably loose or not zeroed in properly. For a custom .50BMG, I'd be pissed with a 30" group at 300yds.
 
Something was seriously wrong there.
At 15 feet, shooting through the roughly 6" opening that my chronograph allows for bullets to pass through I have yet to hit the chrony, so for his theory to hold I should have had to purchase many chronies over the years.
That being said the big ULDs do take a little ways to "go to sleep" but not THAT far.
At 100 yards every 50 I have ever had would print a decent group, to fine tune a load I would work it up at 100 yards and then confirm it at 300 or 400 yards.

I agree you called BS correctly.
 
That was too funny. I would love to see the bullet trace on that.....350yds, bullets hang a left and sucks back into the group.

In case he gives you some other smart comeback, just tell him that the US requires their BALL ammo to shoot 2.5MOA with 80% confidence out of their test rifles (specs from memory but you can look up the specs) so his custom rifle is shooting much worse then a machine gun and make big noise ammo.

Aftermarket ammo like from Talon, require a much tighter spec of around 1.5 MOA- see ads in Shotgun news and similar mags.

He 2.5ft group at 300yds is 10 MOA. Either he can't shoot or there is something seriously wrong with his custom rig.

The customs that were at the Summerland LR shoot a couple of years ago were around 1 to 1.5 MOA at 2300yds. Maybe it took that long for the bullet to go to sleep :)

Jerry
 
Maybe when he was getting his custom rifle built they forgot to rifle the barrel and just cut a 1/2 to 5/8 inch hole OR in order to reduce recoil he must have the barrel and action sitting on springs on top of the stock. Did he look like that dude with the crooked face and wondering eye's that could have been Afghan in one of the pictures found on this site?
 
You mean this guy?

633518419042950323-marksmanship---aim-with-your-good-eye---motivational-army-poster.jpg


No, not quite that bad lol.

I did not get a chance to get a peek at the gun, else I would have snapped a picture of it. I also have never seen this guy at our range before, prompting me to believe that he is not a regular.
 
alberta tactical rifle said:
Something was seriously wrong there.
At 15 feet, shooting through the roughly 6" opening that my chronograph allows for bullets to pass through I have yet to hit the chrony, so for his theory to hold I should have had to purchase many chronies over the years.
That being said the big ULDs do take a little ways to "go to sleep" but not THAT far.
At 100 yards every 50 I have ever had would print a decent group, to fine tune a load I would work it up at 100 yards and then confirm it at 300 or 400 yards.

I agree you called BS correctly.
Click to expand...

Just print out ATRS response and take it to the range incase you ever see the guy again. I doubt many people on this site know more about a custom 50 BMG rig than ATRS because they probly built most of them.
 
cdnredneck_t3 said:
Just print out ATRS response and take it to the range incase you ever see the guy again. I doubt many people on this site know more about a custom 50 BMG rig than ATRS because they probly built most of them.
Click to expand...

True I have built a goodly number of 50s over the years, and over the years have learned a bit about the 50s, but if the rifle was shooting THAT poorly I can assure it was NOT 1 of mine:D
 
Ballistics eh?

Wow,

That excuse might have worked on someone who doesn't have a SCHMICK! :p

What he really did was illuminate his lack of knowledge of ballistics. It seems to me that he heard of guns that become more accurate over longer ranges as the projectile stabilizes, and just misinterpreted what he heard. Like ATR said, some rounds do take a little while to stabilize, but that doesn't mean group sizes shrink after they do! It just means that the MOA of the group should shrink as it goes farther out. For example, a round that doesn't stabilize until say, 250 metres out might be good for a 6"/2MOA group at 300 metres(I know it's big, but bear with me!). However, now that it's stabilized, it could potentially remain in a 6" group at 400, 500, and 600 metres. Now, your 2moa gun from 300 is a 1moa gun at 600. Obviously this is in a shooter's perfect world, where wind doesn't exist. But you can see how someone with just enough knowledge to be dangerous could interpret that as the groups shrinking at longer ranges.

My theory on your friend's problem is flinching. I've shot .50's a fair bit without a muzzle brake, and it's not fun. However, with a muzzle brake the blast of the shot is quite substantial, and even though the recoil is negligable some shooters develop a flinch because of muzzle BLAST. If there aren't any problems with the gun, scope, mount, or ammo, that's the only reason I can think of for accuracy that terrible. Unless he was trying to shoot the beast offhand. :D

Another reason could be that his reloads are junk, because any commercial ammo would shoot better than that. Even Military surplus ball would be good to go. We put de-linked MG ammo through a McMillan tac .50 to see how it would shoot, and to DOPE it, and were pleasantly surprised. On paper it shoots 1-2moa out to 600 metres, and past that it's good for "minute of steel gong" out to 1200.

Cheers.

Tim
 
Tim H said:
Wow,

That excuse might have worked on someone who doesn't have a SCHMICK! :p

What he really did was illuminate his lack of knowledge of ballistics. It seems to me that he heard of guns that become more accurate over longer ranges as the projectile stabilizes, and just misinterpreted what he heard. Like ATR said, some rounds do take a little while to stabilize, but that doesn't mean group sizes shrink after they do! It just means that the MOA of the group should shrink as it goes farther out. For example, a round that doesn't stabilize until say, 250 metres out might be good for a 6"/2MOA group at 300 metres(I know it's big, but bear with me!). However, now that it's stabilized, it could potentially remain in a 6" group at 400, 500, and 600 metres. Now, your 2moa gun from 300 is a 1moa gun at 600. Obviously this is in a shooter's perfect world, where wind doesn't exist. But you can see how someone with just enough knowledge to be dangerous could interpret that as the groups shrinking at longer ranges.

My theory on your friend's problem is flinching. I've shot .50's a fair bit without a muzzle brake, and it's not fun. However, with a muzzle brake the blast of the shot is quite substantial, and even though the recoil is negligable some shooters develop a flinch because of muzzle BLAST. If there aren't any problems with the gun, scope, mount, or ammo, that's the only reason I can think of for accuracy that terrible. Unless he was trying to shoot the beast offhand. :D

Another reason could be that his reloads are junk, because any commercial ammo would shoot better than that. Even Military surplus ball would be good to go. We put de-linked MG ammo through a McMillan tac .50 to see how it would shoot, and to DOPE it, and were pleasantly surprised. On paper it shoots 1-2moa out to 600 metres, and past that it's good for "minute of steel gong" out to 1200.

Cheers.

Tim
Click to expand...

You raise a valid and interesting point. The blast from the brake of a 50 is substantial. I have found most commercially made brakes to be quite abusive on the 50s which would certainly contribute to a shooter developing a flinch just from the blast.
That is why I have spent many years developing the brakes we now use on our 50s. The blast is directed away from the shooter and angled in a way so that shooting prone does not get the shooter covered in stuff blown up by the brake.

I have shot a 50 occasionally without a brake, the recoil is NOT fun as you mentioned.
 
alberta tactical rifle said:
I have shot a 50 occasionally without a brake, the recoil is NOT fun as you mentioned.
Click to expand...

I can only imagine. I put 30 threw my 300 WM at the range yesterday and a buddy stoped me on the way home to go try out his new to him doubble barrel 12 GA with a steel but plate. We shot a box of clays and now I have a nice bruise this morning.
 
regards of whether its a .50 or 5.56 the rounds travel through the air generally the same. When they are first fired they arc upwards a bit then back to the centre, but this is only a slight amount. I have to agree with promac, his sights are off. I have had groupings with the C7A1 about 2 feet centre to centre, though my groupings were about the size of a toonie at 300m, my sights were just way off.
 
Just because you can buy an expensive gun to shoot, doesn't mean you should I guess :) Reminds me of the guy who buys a Ferrari and wraps it around a telephone pole on a curve because he can't drive properly.
 
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