50 cal muzzle loader using Lee 320gr R.E.A.L. bullets

elkhuntr

elkhuntr

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Kamloops, BC
Looking around the forum and around the net you see some varying advice around the use of wads, cards, or fillers under the Lee R.E.A.L. bullets. Through my experimentation I have tried and still learning the art of casting. I have produced some good bullets using this mold and my bullets scratch with a fingernail but are bit harder than pure lead. (using range pick up). And with less than perfect bullets I have found some reasonable accuracy but not stellar (2-3" at 50m). Still having trouble finding a consistently accurate recipe around the 70gr mark. Using sabots it was a 5 minute job finding a great load at 100gr Pyrodex RS using 300gr SSTs into 0.5 inch, so I know my rifle will shoot well. My rifle is a TC Omega shot with open sights.

So wondering if you conical users out there would prescribe to the use of fillers such as cream of wheat. I have researched some good and bad out there. Mostly the bad is in metallic cartridges. But the theme is such fillers or wads can improve accuracy using R.E.A.L.s

So what do you say out there CGNers. How does a 20gr charge of COW above powder sound as a start. What charges have you found to work for you. I'm very new to the sport and learning as I go. Muzzle stuffers sure are fun to search for that golden load and smoke out the place.
Elky...
 
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Hey Elkhunter; I'll shoot target loads of 60 grains of Goex FF, setting a 300 (some odd) grain R.E.A.L lubed bullet on top of the powder in my Lyman 50 cal with good results. (pie plate {10"} at 100 yards)

I use as pure and soft a lead that I can find. Although its true that I can get better accuracy with a tight PRB, the trade off is that loading the rifle becomes a chore. With lubed (BB) R.E.A.L boolits, it seems I can shoot all day and the fouling remains minimal and soft.

I found with conical projectiles (either solid like the REAL or hollow like Minnie's) your charge weight has a lot to bear on the equation. Try dropping or rising the powder measure to find that 'sweet spot' load for that set up.
 
Thanks Plinker.

My lowest load is 65 gr pyrodex and found it to be still sloppy but at around 85 I found better results. However, I did slug my barrel and found my bullet nose is getting beat up by my conical starter and have since changed to a round ball starter and see if those results are better overall. I will try 50gr to see if that provides some better results. Backing off the charge did improve the performance. I tried 90 and 100gr but found they patterned rather than grouped and I suspect gas cutting. I do not see the need to look for a higher charge. I did use lyman muzzle loader lube on those tests. I decided to use a dip method for lubing these bullets by melting the lube. It coats them nicely and the extra lube gets sized off when seating them. Or is that too much lube?

The only item I have not tried was the wad or filler idea. Any preferred idea for this?
 
I agree with plinker.. Do you lube the bottom of the real it is important.. If not than a lubed card.. the grooves lubed will not carry it.. I shoot 90grn behind my reals in a lyman deerstalker caplock
 
When dipping the bullet the base is completely covered. I tested first by removing this. Sounds like the base should remain lubed too. Thanks for that. Cheers LeroyvdH
 
I've never used a filler or wad card so I can't help you much there aside from to say 'go for it'. Try, try again at the range to find what works best. I would recommend using soft lead. believe it or not, the softer the lead the better it will cut the rifling sealing the projectile with the least amount of deformation from the short starter.
I don't coat the whole boolit in bore butter, rather I pack the lands by hand prior to loading and as I've said, I have no problems with fouling. I don't even clean or swab in between shots...20, 30 rounds no problem. (which is truly remarkable compared to round ball shooting!)

If soft lead is a problem sourcing, a wad card may well be the answer if you're loosing some psi past the R.E.A.L.? The thought being, that similar to the skirted Minne ball, as the pressure builds behind the R.E.A.L, it seals itself tight against the rifling...but if your lead is too hard...you may have a problem. :(
 
Cheers folks. Will keep looking for some pure lead. If I can easily score the bottom of the bullet with a thumbnail, it must be pretty close. Going to the range tomorrow to test the theories. Will report back.
Elky....
 
Had a fine time at the range yesterday. And it was great to figure a few items out.

First off I did the 50m test with lubed 320gr REALs (bases included) with my baseline 85gr Pyrodex load. Not bad and a perceived improvement over non coated bases. 1 1/8" best two (3 1/4" group overall, 2.4" vertical)
Then I used 20gr of COW over the powder, Same bullet combo. Wow....best two 1/2 inch. (2 3/4" inch overall 1.4" vertical)

So using COW I had a 15 percent decrease in group size and 40 percent decrease in vertical spread. So cow will be part of the formula from now on with this bullet/range lead combo.

The other findings:

  • My lead is too hard. Range pick up will need to be scrapped for practice and I will need to look for a source of pure. Loading was difficult to darn near impossible as I had to beat the bullets down to the powder column.
  • Using a ball starter and ball attachment on the ramrod works well without damaging the nose of the bullet. Using a pointed starter on a REAL is not a good idea as it will deform the bullets nose.
  • With COW the recoil was noticeable over the un buffered loads. By a lot. the Point of impact was 6" left and 4" low vs the unbuffered load. So to me this indicates I was getting a lot of blow by. Lesson learned...need Pure lead.
  • The REALs have the potential for very accurate rounds....the shooter needs more work to keep em in the bull:p
  • COW works....so no need to consider changing up for some fancy wads or cards just yet. I could have some pre measured COW charges ready in speed loaders.

Thanks for the help fellas. Now to get some range time in and hit some steel at various ranges. Fun fun fun....I like shooting these sootershooters.
Elky...
 
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