500-32
- Thread starter mercuryv8
- Start date
Kodiak99317
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Saskatchewan, Canada
The 500 is what is important here... the 32, be it V's or X's, are just a bonus and does not count except when used for tie breaking.
I agree Ian. I went over the scores from last weekend and turned the x's into 11. Frank was first, Tom second, Dennis Third. This moves Tom from 3rd to 2nd and Dennis 6th to 3rd. Oh well something to put forward at the next agm.
ps got the barrel today thx
Yes the the shooter that shot 500-0V's or X's put all his shots closer to the middle of the target that the guy that shot 499-49.
In Ontario and at the DCRA in F Class the V is worth 6 points. Usually when I look at the scores and see 57, I always think 50 with 7 V's. I never think 49 with with 8 V's. So who really had the better score?
Now think about the guy that shoots 50 with 0 V's for a score of 50, now another shooter crossfires but shoots 45 with 6 V on his own target and his score ends up 51. Who shot the better target? Should the guy that cross fired beat the guy that put all his shots on his own target but couldn't find the V? Should the guy that put a shot 15 feet off his own target win? I think not.
V's or X's should only be used to break ties and should never have been given an extra point.
In Ontario and at the DCRA in F Class the V is worth 6 points. Usually when I look at the scores and see 57, I always think 50 with 7 V's. I never think 49 with with 8 V's. So who really had the better score?
Now think about the guy that shoots 50 with 0 V's for a score of 50, now another shooter crossfires but shoots 45 with 6 V on his own target and his score ends up 51. Who shot the better target? Should the guy that cross fired beat the guy that put all his shots on his own target but couldn't find the V? Should the guy that put a shot 15 feet off his own target win? I think not.
V's or X's should only be used to break ties and should never have been given an extra point.
Maybe the solution is What we are shooting in the BCRA fclass matches in the last year. I believe it is a 1/4 MOA v-bull. and 1/2MOA 5 ring? Then maybe it will be more Like TR scores and V-bull are for tie breaking.
Interesting perspective, but I still think that the whole "V-bull" thing should go.
the cross-fire scenario is an excellent one. The elimination of a X/V score would level the playing field and allow a good shooter to make up for a mistake like a cross-fire. It would add a degree of strategy.
the cross-fire scenario is an excellent one. The elimination of a X/V score would level the playing field and allow a good shooter to make up for a mistake like a cross-fire. It would add a degree of strategy.
Regardless of the size of the V or X as long as it is still in the middle of the target who cares? What I don't like is that under the current V=6 rule a shooter can crossfire and still win a match. Crossfire under target rifle rules and you end up at the bottom of the second page even if you did shoot a 45.9V
Geez Maynard, there has to be a great story in there somewhere! At least one can be forgiven for a cross fire... ever shown up to match, been ahead by "mile" and discovered you didn't bring enough ammo?
I felt so retarded I should have had a telethon named after me.
At least one can be forgiven for a cross fire... ever shown up to match, been ahead by "mile" and discovered you didn't bring enough ammo?I felt so retarded I should have had a telethon named after me.
Regardless of the size of the V or X as long as it is still in the middle of the target who cares? What I don't like is that under the current V=6 rule a shooter can crossfire and still win a match. Crossfire under target rifle rules and you end up at the bottom of the second page even if you did shoot a 45.9V
I guess that would be the greatest sin in your opinion but, I don't think that your scenario is all that practical. Most matches I've shot are pretty close maybe 3-5V's separating the top shooters. In the matches I have won, I would definably lost big time if I cross fired.
Regardless of the size of the V or X as long as it is still in the middle of the target who cares? What I don't like is that under the current V=6 rule a shooter can crossfire and still win a match. Crossfire under target rifle rules and you end up at the bottom of the second page even if you did shoot a 45.9V
well if statistically by shrinking the v-bull and then 90% of V's become 5's then the old scoring would work very well. Then the shooter would be shooting 4's and 5's and not 5's and V's
Geez Maynard, there has to be a great story in there somewhere!
I felt so retarded I should have had a telethon named after me.
Sorry no great story of disaster about losing a match because of a cross firem for me anyway. I have seen it happen though. I was scoring for a guy at an ISU match and all he had to do was shoot an 8 to win the match. As soon as he fired his last shot he looked back at me and said he cross fired. Sure enough a 10 came up on the next target.
Marksmen,
That is the point I am trying to make, if you have a brain fart and put a V on the target next door, you should lose the match. With the present size DCRA scoring rings there are not too many 50-10V's or 75-15V's, for an entire match/Agg. V's should not =6 points and crossfires should equal a 5 point deduction. It has been like that for a hundred years or so, but the F Class seem to want to change the scoring system so they can have their cake and eat it too.
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and the "NeverEnding Story" continues.................
(IBSC & NBRSA) Benchrest for Score ...dots count extra
No shootoffs
Sorry Tom We don't want to change scoring system for TR shooters'
just F Class shooters.A similair game that's taking on a life (and rules) of it's own since it's inception.
Shouldn't bother TR fellows at all if F is scored different should it??
Gord
(IBSC & NBRSA) Benchrest for Score ...dots count extra
No shootoffs
Sorry Tom We don't want to change scoring system for TR shooters'
just F Class shooters.A similair game that's taking on a life (and rules) of it's own since it's inception.
Shouldn't bother TR fellows at all if F is scored different should it??
Gord
Kodiak99317
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Saskatchewan, Canada
Gord
Actually the dot or X's as they are called DO NOT count extra, again only used for tie breaking. You are correct about no shootoffs, but they use a count FORWARD rule, the first one to drop a point or an X against the other score is the loser checking bull 1 thru 25 if need be, so the first shots have more importance. In T/R, it is the reverse, they use a count BACK from 15 or 10 or 7 down to bull 1, 1st one again to drop the point or V or X loses. Plus a crossfire score does not hurt you that much... "When an identifiable crossfire occurs on another competitor's target, the low value or identifiable shot shall be transferred to the offender’s target and a penalty of one point deducted."
Tom, I have sent one over the top of my target into the dirt man handling my rifle (finger must have found the trigger went I was doing it) and I still beat everyone at that yardage, and won the agg. I figured I was out of it after the one got away, but I held on for the win. Sometimes you get lucky too.
I agree re: the DCRA rings, out of 229 times the Fr's at Nokomis went to the line in 2007, there was only 7 Cdn F class cleans shot (50-10 or 75-15). Only 2.5% - 3.0% of the time will you come off with a clean on this range and that is mostly at the mid range targets (300M to 600 yd, but there was 1 clean shot at 800 yds too by one of our newbie's, good shooting Paul G.) That said, I have also shot on the US F Class targets and had a few US F Class cleans too (4 out of 16 times on the line I shot 100, the X's are only for tie breaking) Aim small, hit small, score high I say. I do like their 10 ring 1/2 moa targets better myself, just have to change the colors around IMO, white inners, black outers.
I also agree about V's should not =6 points and crossfires should equal a 5 point deduction, and I'm a F Class Open shooter.
The more I see it, maybe the F Class shooters should do what the service rifle/military shooters do and run their own matches on their own days. This would end the bull we have to put up with, both ways. We might as well, since we are only competing against our own classes anyways and then we could do as we like, score value wise and target wise. Heck, we could even have a white center and black outer rings, or use the IBS LG/HG 1000 yd group target with it's 10 ring value and blue rings.... As long as we pull our own targets and have say, GAS cards as prizes, and rent the range from the PRA org for $100 per day and use their frames, we could do pretty well IMO. Yes there would be smaller groups out at the matches since we (T/R and F) would be shooting on different weekends, but it would be less stressful and more fun IMO for the Fr's. We like to talk and have fun on the line. Definitely something for us FR's to think about.. food for thought.. and we would not have to watching all the best prizes (Lt Gov's medals etc) go to only the T/R group ...
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Target Rifle shooting in Canada has only survived by the introduction of F Class. In my opinion F Class itself would have died without the F(O) class. Just look at how many F(F) shooters there are at the CFRC. A few years ago TR(O) optical was introduce at the CFRC, I think it lasted 2 years, 3 at the most. You don't find too many new shooters jumping right into TR even with about 50 new cadets getting a taste of it each year. The fact that a new shooter can do reasonably well with a scoped rifle off a bipod has more of an appeal than working your ass off trying to build a solid prone shooting position for TR.
When the F Class entry gets to be as big as the TR entry at the CFRC, I am sure the prizes will also grow to include an F Class Lt.Gov's and GG's prizes.
I don't think as a sport we are big enough to hold matches at the provincial level or even at the national level for TR and F Class, and be able to make a small profit from each.
When the F Class entry gets to be as big as the TR entry at the CFRC, I am sure the prizes will also grow to include an F Class Lt.Gov's and GG's prizes.
I don't think as a sport we are big enough to hold matches at the provincial level or even at the national level for TR and F Class, and be able to make a small profit from each.
