500 Shooters from around the World in Ottawa

Sorry Ian, still a bit goofy from the marathon western swing. Congrats to John for the LR Challenge win. Norm and Leo did well too, as did everyone else. 5 points from 1st to 3rd shows how tight things have gotten especially in the conditions described. I've been checking the CFRC Agg results and it looks like Marius has it nailed pretty well so far. Mrs. Warner appears to be uncharacteristically absent from the top end. Problems? Anyway, good luck to all. Match Schedules, time and distance did not allow me to get there this year. Another regret for 2007.

With regard to advertising. Where else would people see like to see it? This and other LR forums have discussed the CFRC for a while and do so every year, not to mention the more discerning shooting publications. I also believe a person has some responsibility to keep themselves informed.
With the current media philosophy, match information and results don't seem to be a priority for inclusion the sports sections, even for the local fish wrappers. Then again, maybe it's not a good idea to publish firearms owners names and locations in the free press. Some criminal bastards can read both papers and maps.

Cheers, Glen
 
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The CFRC has been running for years 125 years in Canada, so the DCRA site would be a good starting place, or visiting your local PRA or contacting a member of one of these groups, they all know about the dates for the Cdn Fullbore Rifle Championships. If someone is interested enough, with the web and all, you should be able to find the match. A simple search for "long range rifle match +canada" in Google shows this match in items 4 thru 7 of the first page of the found 497,000 sites that match this search criteria.

Oh yes, congrats John, great shooting!! And congrats to the others shooting there, with high variable winds, if you can stay on the target, my hat is off to ya'!
 
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NormB said:
Nice shooting John... This year's Winner of the the Long Range Challenge

F-F AND F-O COMPETITORS

PRIZE POS. NAME [HPS 270] NO. ATTR SCORE

NormB
Click to expand...

thanks for the compliment Norm, Glen & Kodiak...
I got this far in f-class mostly because of Norm's help through the years. he really helped me a lot and he's also great shot/competitor to compete against.

What I find exciting right now is the fact that some of the cnd f-class guys are hanging right in there. Now that's a challenge. They've been shooting for days now and they're doing very very well against some very tough competition from around the world.

I think it's incredible the small percentage or number of points being dropped. In my last relay on the day I was there I got a taste of what the winds can do and these guys have been shooting in it for severals days now... this is quite a display of marksmanship going on there.

Marius De Champlain in particular is shooting extremely well. This is all pretty exciting! Stay focused, aim straight, shoot well!

Dale Rathwell is also doing well... and he's f/f !... you know shooting off a bipod!
 
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Inspector said:
Sorry Ian, still a bit goofy from the marathon western swing. Congrats to John for the LR Challenge win. Norm and Leo did well too, as did everyone else. 5 points from 1st to 3rd shows how tight things have gotten especially in the conditions described. I've been checking the CFRC Agg results and it looks like Marius has it nailed pretty well so far. Mrs. Warner appears to be uncharacteristically absent from the top end. Problems? Anyway, good luck to all. Match Schedules, time and distance did not allow me to get there this year. Another regret for 2007.

With regard to advertising. Where else would people see like to see it? This and other LR forums have discussed the CFRC for a while and do so every year, not to mention the more discerning shooting publications. I also believe a person has some responsibility to keep themselves informed.
With the current media philosophy, match information and results don't seem to be a priority for inclusion the sports sections, even for the local fish wrappers. Then again, maybe it's not a good idea to publish firearms owners names and locations in the free press. Some criminal bastards can read both papers and maps.

Cheers, Glen
Click to expand...

not to go off on a tangent but maybe a reminder is needed. It never ceases to amaze how some folks say rather post they have a hard time finding information on shooting disciplines they might be interested in or results or whatever related to any target shooting discipline.

I see some posting regularly about this. If they're posting they're on the internet and if they're on the internet what's that saying? Google is your friend!...

just how hard is it to type in www.dcra.ca?

or long range shooting in Canada or half a dozen other phrases...

615 guys in ottawa obviously knew about it some of them as far away as Australia... they're there shooting! Plus the hundreds of others in the support area. They didn't find the info published in their local Australian or New Zealand newspaper?

If you are indeed interested you don't need to be spoon fed. Simply by reading through some posts you can get the words you need to do searches. Once you land on those website they are full of information, schedules and results... bookmark the pages so you can return to them? You've bookmarked gunnutz right?

Heck it's easy to setup half a dozen icons on your computer desktops to easily jump to these sites...

If anyone has trouble doing any of this then I can't possibly imagine how organized you'd be with a shooting calendar, getting ready for matches, loading and then actually showing up!

I'm not trying to tick anybody off but this is pretty basic...

now maybe some folks were just kidding around well ya got me and I'll chill...
 
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Congrats jkajfes on your win. Not an easy accomplishment and certainly a superb score. Nice to see lots of Canucks in the top rankings.

Love to have been there but the usual time and money problems....

For any new shooters reading this and wondering how they can even compete with 500+ shooters? You DON'T!.

The only "shooters" you need to compete with is that voice in your skull and the winds/conditions.

Top shooters use that voice as a coach to help them overcome the real gremlin - mother nature.

Get out there and shoot. Who cares how you do (except maybe you)? Practise some more, learn some more. Your scores will improve.

You don't need to spend huge dollars to do well. Just have reliable consistent accuracy. 1/2 MOA is all you need to win F class anywhere in the world. You just need to read conditions well enough to steer those bullets into the 10ring. Thousands of dollars in gear will not help you catch a 5mph shift in wind direction/angle.

Thousands of dollars worth of practise WILL!

See you all in Kamloops for the Farky.

Jerry
 
Hi John, Thanks for the correction to 615 from what I said as 500. I believe there are eleven countries here. Unfortunately it's the same old problem of turning posters into shooters!
 
Jerry - Great post, I completely agree - if you look at the DCRA site, and the results, check out the Army/Navy 900 from Friday....look for my name (Ron Kaine) and you'll see my score (0 wih X) - did not hit the target once in 12 shots - but I sure learned a lot.....I shot 609 in the Early Short Agg, out of 840 HPS - and I will be back next year, and will compete in the same events, and will be competing against myself from 2007 - looking to have learned some more and improved year over year. And I did not meet one person who "looked down" upon me.

As for dollars - shooting a Savage 12FVSS .223 (bought used from ORA), still original barrel and tupperware stock, Rifle Basix Trigger, Bushnell 3200 10X40 and a Harris Bipod - handloads of 75 Gr Amax. That rig is not a lot of money.

Start slow, and learn, and shoot as much as you can.
 
rkaine, good luck on your future shoots. I am sure things will start coming together soon. Test you loads at 200 to 300yds. STringing is a problem you do not need when trying for accuracy.

There is little reason why your rifle cannot put you in the top third if you do your part.

Jerry
 
This has to be the best field of shooters anywhere as far as TR is concerned.
I guess Palma years always are, much tougher than Bisley.

In the Canada Match, 8 shooters per team firing 10 shots each at 300, 500 and 600 yds.

Great Britain fired a 1199 out of 1200. David Luckman of the GB team went clean on bulls and dropped just 2 V's. The 1199 is a new record for this match.
Canada was 3rd with 1195. The team included two young shooters, in their early 20's, Greg Perron from BC and Laurie Hearn from NF and they were outstanding. Greg fired a 150 and Laurie fired a 149 which is a terrific performance for an international team match.

After the 300 and 500 yrd ranges, there was a 3 way tie going into the final range at 600 yds. Canada, GB and Australia all down 1 point.

In the end:
GB 1199
USA 1196
Canada 1195
Australia 1191
Ireland 1188
Channel Islands 1185
South Africa 1185
Germany 1175
West Indies 1161
Kenya 1154

New Zealand did not fire in this match.
The old record for this match was 1197.

World Individual Long Range match starts today and ends Thursday. The entry for this will be just over 400 shooters.

Andy
 
Not trying to be rude but with approx 182 shooters, we had a very strong percentage of shooters at the event. The issue is not necessarily more shooters at this level of comp but better shooters.

Again, not saying any of these shootes, with training and practise couldn't kick anyone else's butt - they most certainly could. I just don't feel they get enough trigger time.

Hearing what the US shooters practise in preparations for competition, little wonder they can out shoot most. Litterally, thousands of rounds per season. Big dollars, big time and equipment commited.

That is what I see lacking - trigger time.

If I were training for such an event, I would expect to shoot at least twice a week with 4 times being better. That is at the distances I would compete at.

How many ranges can go beyond 500yds? how many ranges are open everyday of the week? How many shooters practise more then once a week?

I bet if you surveyed the Can shooters, most are relatively new to the sport as far as trigger time goes. Most have not shot at that range or any range extensively. Most have had limited time shooting and testing beyond 300yds.

Pretty hard to learn how to shoot DURING a match.

Jerry
 
If we had more shooters we would ultimately have better shooters and you can only learn to shoot matches by shooting matches. Remember that none of this is shot off a rest or bipod with a scope. It is a sling and irons. I would bet that not more than a few new shooters a year get into this in Canada. It is hard work and a lot of it and most new shooters seem to be happy going the F route which is a lot easier to have decent results in a hurry. Of all the Cadets, many of which show great promise, a very tiny percentage come back when they have to pay their way, expensive or not. If you go to USA or UK you will find a much higher percentage of young shooters as to here, and they have to pay for it as well. Not all shooters in Canada are poor and when youngsters show up at our club they do get subsidized one way or the other, but we don't have any that stay for long haul. In Ottawa for example we have excellent facilities but never get requests from Cadet units for help with shooting? I guess they have better things to do. Who's fault is all this? All of ours I suppose but we should start with the liberals as their plan is working rather well and will continue to if we don't do something about it, like getting more kids interested.
 
Ian, you are right on the money. Shooting is no longer a popular youth sport. At least not shooting at paper. They don't seem to mind action shooting in urban areas though :)

Society has made shooters a pariah. Nothing glamourous in that.

As for cost, that is a lousy excuse. Just see what parents will spend for hockey or golf for little juniour. They could burn out Gaillards every other month and still have money left over.

Top level shooting is the LEAST expensive equipment sport. Ever see what an Ironman quality bike costs? How about becoming a top level Water Skier?

In BC, the gov't is trying to encourage more youth hunting as conservation revenues have plummeted to 'dangerous' levels. I guess that means firearms ownership has to also grow. If there is a rebirth of youth in the field, maybe we just coax them into having some fun competing. Maybe hunters and shooters may not be so evil after all.

There is little doubt that F class is eclipsing TR by a large margin. Shooting slings and open sights is TOUGH. Way easier to get good scores with scopes and rests. Besides shooting in shorts and sandles in the summer is pretty comfy.

If instant results is what new shooters need to stay, let's make it happen.

For those 180ish shooters that showed up, let's encourage and support those few with the potential to do well.

A local girl had a dream to make it to the Olympics in mogul/freestyle skiing. Local support gave her the funds to concentrate on training, not working three jobs to pay for food and rent.

She did well at the last winter Olympics and recently won the World championship. Yes, the best in the WORLD!!!!!

She had a great place to train, people to help her train, financing to allow her to train, the willingness to give 110% and train, family/friends/community supporting her (local celebrity), and a bit of luck = excellent results.

Winning never comes without a price. how much are we willing to spend?

Jerry
 
AndyKL said:
This has to be the best field of shooters anywhere as far as TR is concerned.
I guess Palma years always are, much tougher than Bisley.

In the Canada Match, 8 shooters per team firing 10 shots each at 300, 500 and 600 yds.

Great Britain fired a 1199 out of 1200. David Luckman of the GB team went clean on bulls and dropped just 2 V's. The 1199 is a new record for this match.
Canada was 3rd with 1195. The team included two young shooters, in their early 20's, Greg Perron from BC and Laurie Hearn from NF and they were outstanding. Greg fired a 150 and Laurie fired a 149 which is a terrific performance for an international team match.

After the 300 and 500 yrd ranges, there was a 3 way tie going into the final range at 600 yds. Canada, GB and Australia all down 1 point.

In the end:
GB 1199
USA 1196
Canada 1195
Australia 1191
Ireland 1188
Channel Islands 1185
South Africa 1185
Germany 1175
West Indies 1161
Kenya 1154

New Zealand did not fire in this match.
The old record for this match was 1197.

World Individual Long Range match starts today and ends Thursday. The entry for this will be just over 400 shooters.

Andy
Click to expand...
One point behind 2nd... four points behind 1st. I think that's pretty darn good!
 
I hope we do great and if not it will not be from a lack of hard work by many people on the Palma team. It shows what the skill level is when you get all the best in the world in one place. A point can be a huge difference. For anyone who does not know, the V is half the diameter of the bull on this target and as Andy has said Luckman dropped only 2 V's in 30 shots on score and for anyone unaware this is with iron sights and a sling, no scopes, no bipods, no camo! Awesome shooting! This is what we are up against now!
 
Canada shot 1195. A very good score and a score about what i would expect if every shooter on the team shot at his best with good coaching. I bet it would have been a winning score most years.

There is a big difference between losing a match and getting beat. We got beat.

I have won, lost and got beat. Winning is the best, but I don't agonise when someone else does even better. But I hate losing.
 
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