Does anyone have any loading info for these bullets in 45-70 under 28000CUP? Lymann 49 says 49grs of varget gets 1533fps at 29700CUP. I'd like to get down to around 1400-1450fps if I can. That should drop the pressure a lot lower but I can't find published data. I am very new to reloading. Thanks for any suggestions
500gr jacketed rn .458
- Thread starter brybenn
- Start date
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Any reason you want to use expensive jacketed bullets when you could use cast? No .458 jacketed bullet will expand with a muzzle velocity of 1400. Ben Hunchak on this site can fix you up with a variety of quality .458 cast bullets.
500 gr data for use in .45/70 weak action rifles isn't that easy to come by, but one approach is to start with a slow burning powder; that way even with a full case, the pressure will stay within your criteria. As an example, 48 grs of H-4831 behind a 500 gr bullet and touched off with a magnum primner should put you around 1400 fps. The OAL should be around 3.05" if your throat is long enough. If you are loading the Hornady 500 gr Interlock round nose, the cannelure would be above the mouth of the case to achieve an OAL of 3.05" but watch out if you are using the DGX, the shank below the cannelure is longer, so you'll want to seat it out of the case a touch longer.
Edited to add . . .
You'll find that H-4831 is very dirty and leaves much powder residue due to incomplete burning, but the pressure is mild and accuracy is fine with either jacketed or cast bullets.
500 gr data for use in .45/70 weak action rifles isn't that easy to come by, but one approach is to start with a slow burning powder; that way even with a full case, the pressure will stay within your criteria. As an example, 48 grs of H-4831 behind a 500 gr bullet and touched off with a magnum primner should put you around 1400 fps. The OAL should be around 3.05" if your throat is long enough. If you are loading the Hornady 500 gr Interlock round nose, the cannelure would be above the mouth of the case to achieve an OAL of 3.05" but watch out if you are using the DGX, the shank below the cannelure is longer, so you'll want to seat it out of the case a touch longer.
Edited to add . . .
You'll find that H-4831 is very dirty and leaves much powder residue due to incomplete burning, but the pressure is mild and accuracy is fine with either jacketed or cast bullets.
What rifle is this to be used in? Most 45/70s will require a tight crimp and crimping these in the cannelure provided will not work for you due to length. Ruger 45/70s have problems with this bullet as well because they have a short throat that would require seating the bullet deep into the case...seems to me to be a very expensive way to be having reloading problems....IMHO
Its a baikal double rifle mp221. I will be casting my own soon I just ordered lymanns 4th ed. I just need a mould. I only have wheel weight lead and some purer soft lead. I thought the 500gr jacketed would penetrate deeper then anything in my casting ability. This rifles sole purpose is bear hunting in thick cover. I'd like a good expanding bullet in one barrel and a tougher one in the other for an insurance shot. Hence I thought the 500gr jacketed at slower velocities would work. To Ben what kind of cast bullets could you offer? And how much would shipping set me back. I'm in southern ontario
I've never experimented with casting for the 45-70 yet but the 12ga slugs I cast flatten out very fast with the lead I'm using. I realize there is much more frontal area in the 12ga then the 458. I just want the confidence of knowing I can break the heavier bones of a big bear and reach the vitals from any angle with the second shot if it decides to head for thicker cover. Why risk loosing an animal to save a few bucks. I'm just starting into the reloading hobby so the idea of a jacketed bullet being much simpler then casting lubing and maybe even gas checking a cast bullet is to me favourable untill I gain some experience. I hope to never need a second shot but its nice knowing its there
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Shotgun slug performance does not equate to rifle bullet performance, particularly a heavy for caliber rifle bullet. Not only are they light for caliber, slugs are thimble shaped and upon impact the skirts move forward toward the nose, further increasing the frontal diameter and diminishing penetration. A rifle bullet might expand slightly at the nose, but it doesn't loose its longitudinal axis like the slug, so velocity is shed at a lessor rate resulting in greater penetration.
I agree 100%. Its a long time intill next years bear hunt and I intend to play with this gun all year once I find away to let the wife know I snuck in another gun.
Boomer in your experience would you place trust in a soft lead or wheel weight mix bullet to reach the vitals in an average size bear even if the shot was aimed at the south end of a north bound bear? I've been reading a lot of metallurgy articles and will try making some harder mixes over winter. What mold would you suggest for the 45-70? And at what velocity would you recommend at the muzzle. Thank you for your insight
Boomer in your experience would you place trust in a soft lead or wheel weight mix bullet to reach the vitals in an average size bear even if the shot was aimed at the south end of a north bound bear? I've been reading a lot of metallurgy articles and will try making some harder mixes over winter. What mold would you suggest for the 45-70? And at what velocity would you recommend at the muzzle. Thank you for your insight
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Speaking in general terms, I would have no problem using a pure lead bullet on a black bear. But speaking in specific terms, you will have to determine if pure lead bullets will produce acceptable accuracy in your barrel at the velocities you intend to load them to. You might well find that your wheel weights produce better accuracy for more rounds because they foul less. Now I've never had much success with pure lead bullets myself, except when the velocity is less than 1000 fps. I personally believe that 800-1000 fps is the upper limit for pure lead depending on the condition of the barrel throat and bore. But once you break 1000 fps, you need to have a bit on tin in there, but IMHO you don't need to go as hard as #2 alloy until you break 1500. If you intend to cast a bunch of bullets to be used over a broad velocity range, I'd be tempted to make them on the hard side.
If you are looking for a really good book on cast bullets, get Veral Smith's, "Jacketed Performance With Cast Bullets." LBJ (Lead Bullet Technologies) HCR 62 Box 145, Moyie Springs ID. 83845.
Perhaps the best game bullet for the .45/70 is Ben's 480 gr WFN, then work up a load that will produce the maximum velocity that you and your rifle can handle.
If you are looking for a really good book on cast bullets, get Veral Smith's, "Jacketed Performance With Cast Bullets." LBJ (Lead Bullet Technologies) HCR 62 Box 145, Moyie Springs ID. 83845.
Perhaps the best game bullet for the .45/70 is Ben's 480 gr WFN, then work up a load that will produce the maximum velocity that you and your rifle can handle.
The same fellow that puts out that book Boomer is talking about also makes/sells LBT molds, his molds and designs are top notch, he kinda specializes in heavy wide meplat bullet designs, usually heavy for caliber, meant for deep penetration on big game. The round nose jacketed Hornady may defeat your purposes because it prolly would not expand at your velocities and is just a roundnose which is not known to create the best wound channels compared to a wide flatnose cast bullet IMHO...Ben
