577-450 vs 45-70

CMichaud

CMichaud

CGN frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
72   0   1
Location
Edmonton side of Alberta
Was wondering if someone who understands ballistics etc could offer information/thoughts with respect to the comparison of the blackpowder loaded 577-450 and 45-70.

Wondering re accuracy, range and stopping power for example.

Thanks
 
Any difference at long range would come down to rate of twist as the one that works with the long bullets required for up to 1000yds or so, these bullets are usually 525 to 600 grs and somewhat pointed. Normal hunting ranges would prolly give the edge to the M-H with sightly more velocity. My 1-18" Badger barrels stabilize those long range bullets.
 
The two are close, but the .577-450 uses a heavier bullet(450 grains plus. MV around 1300 fps) going about the same speed as the 405 grain .45-70 bullet(MV around 1330 fps).
Physics says the bigger bullet will have more energy and it does, but it's only about 100 ft-lbs. The .45-70's 405 drops like a brick past 100. Not finding any data for the .577-450's bullet drop, but it'd be similar.
Accuracy has more to do with the rifle than the cartridge. No such thing as 'stopping power'.
Biggest difference between 'em is the availablity and price of ammo and/or brass.
 
well i dont have a .45-70 but i do have a martini henry in .577-450 i got to say the mk4 martini uses a .470 bullet thats 480gr and moving at 1350 with 85gr of fg powder

and it still has enough energy and velocity to take down a moose at 1300 yards now that said its a huge drop at 1300 but the sight on the martini is marked for it

the martini henry has enough power to take down most african plains game and anything in north america loaded with the original loading with real blackpowder

i dont know about the .45-70 but with modern loadings that should not be used in trapdoor rifles (even new made ones) its up there in FPS not the 1330 of the BP loading is still good enough to take any game in north america

these rounds use punching power to do what thay do not like modern rounds that use HI-vel and hollow points to take down game

in fact the slower rounds like the .45-70 and .577-450 are the best for bison where a .300 win mag will deflect off skull but the .577-450 will punch right through with a cast bullet none the less

now the brass is $5 each for .577-450 and thats the cheap stuff but its alot more fun then a .45-70 of corse you have to be like me t5o get into a martini henry i love odd cartridges and odd guns
 
Check researchpress.co.uk for the article "45-70 at Two Miles" for a comparison of the 577/450 and 45-70.
 
we are talking 1870's guns thay where made for battle not for pin point accuracy but thay do good enough out to 2000 yards on gongs and the like hunting id keep at 100 yards for both my martini shoots dead on at 100 yeards and im getting fist sized groups good enoug for deer moose and BPCR shooting
 
All are making good posts but almost all competitors in long range shooting(that I'm aware of)of 1000yds or so are using 45/70s, 45/90s, or 45/100s with BP and 525gr. or heavier bullets. Look at the equip. lists on some of the long range matches like the Quigley shoot, I don't believe you will see many M-Hs there.
 
CMichaud said:
Camerl2009 - What is your MH load?

Green - An interesting article. Thanks for the link
Click to expand...

im using the load that was used in the 1870's by the brits

for my mk4 martini henry i use a .470" bullet thats 480gr in 20-1 lead-tin its a CBE mold that im using 85gr of fg goex blackpowder 2gr of 100% cotton on top of the powder (i just use cotton balls get the ones made with real cotton) then 2 felt wads 1/8" thick coated with lube the the bullet seated on top of all that

my lube is a homemade BP lube

my brass is jamison all loaded with lee dies and my own neck sizing die(lee FL sizing die i reamed out to the neck)

my plinking load is 24ga magtech brass reforemed to .577-450 with the lee die set a lee .459 405gr hollow base bullet patched up to .470" with paper (i got 1 like this on the way but i had the driving bands made to .470) now here the part that you need to follow 75gr of fg in the magtech brass dont go over this ithe cases like to split at the head if you go over this


now i weigh all my charges on a normal reloading scale and this is ok becuse im using real blackpowder. sub's are volmue weigh only

you have to slug your bore on the martini's becuse there differnt now it has odd groove rifling 7 lands and grooves so you have to roll the slug between the jaws on the calipers the mk4's will be about .470 and the mk1,2,3 will be about .468 for the bullet the Gahendra and Francotte rifles could be any where with the bullet size

and never and i mean never try to fire a Francotte martini there not safe at all its not if it will blow up but when

sorry for the long winded post but its nice info to have
 
camerl2009 said:
we are talking 1870's guns thay where made for battle not for pin point accuracy but thay do good enough out to 2000 yards on gongs and the like hunting id keep at 100 yards for both my martini shoots dead on at 100 yeards and im getting fist sized groups good enoug for deer moose and BPCR shooting
Click to expand...

2000 yards on gongs with a 577-450 or a 45-70?:eek:

According to MY documentation that gong would have to be something like 18feet across - maybe gongs are different where you live...

Supporting documentation for your 2000 yard gong-shots, please.

tac
 
The 577-450 MH can be "bumped-up" a tad in black powder performance....nudge, nudge, wink, wink.:D
The second and fourth from the right are M-H Improved. Work well with a 490 grain bullet over 150 grains of fg.:D
577-450wildcatsandfriends.jpg

If anyone has seen another rifle chambered as such please pm me]
Cheers
Jaguar
 
jaguar said:
The 577-450 MH can be "bumped-up" a tad in black powder performance....nudge, nudge, wink, wink.:D
The second and fourth from the right are M-H Improved. Work well with a 490 grain bullet over 150 grains of fg.:D

If anyone has seen another rifle chambered as such please pm me]
Cheers
Jaguar
Click to expand...

well my mk 4 does good enough with the 480gr bullet and 85gr of fg
its a fun gun to shoot thats for sure and lot faster to load then a trapdoor
i can fire 5 rounds in a minute with more pratice i could do double that :eek:

the brit's said 12rd/min
 
Smoke73 said:
Any idea what pressure the 577/450 creates with standard 85 grns black and full power black loads
Click to expand...

the 85gr with a 480gr is what the martini henry what sighted for when it was made theres no reason to go over that it will kill any game in north america

with that load it shoots dead on at 100 yards and about 3ft high at 50 lol

it still has enough stoping power at 1300 yards to kill a deer

the case will hold about 100 grains of powder and that is alot and will put undue wear on the gun and the cases witch are $5 a piece
 
jaguar said:
The 577-450 MH can be "bumped-up" a tad in black powder performance....nudge, nudge, wink, wink.:D
The second and fourth from the right are M-H Improved. Work well with a 490 grain bullet over 150 grains of fg.:D
577-450wildcatsandfriends.jpg

If anyone has seen another rifle chambered as such please pm me]
Cheers
Jaguar
Click to expand...

:eek: 577-450 M-H improved :D oh my that has potential

Just need a good action to put that on
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom