.577 Snider load data help needed?

Claven2

Claven2

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Gun: Enfield made MkII** in very nice tight condition.
Brass: Converted CBC 24gauge
Bullet: KAL Paradox bullet, 0.590", 340gn 30:1 pb/sn

I have Triple-7 in ffg and fffg as well as Goex in ffg. I also have Trial Boss, 4198 and some other common BP cartridge smokeless powders.

I have lots of natural Kapok I can use as filler to take up case capacity. I figure I will also need a card of some sort, and probably a lube cookie. I do this with my M-H .450/577.

Any suggestions on where to start for a powder charge?
I'm thinking something like 45gn Triple-7 FFg topped with kapok, then wax carton card, 1/8" lube cookie, another card, then bullet.

Lube is basic 50/50 bee's wax and crisco, though I also have 50/50 bee's wax and deer tallow I could also use.

I did find this load online:

73gn fg by volume, 350gn Lee bullet. 1310 fps.

By that measure, my 45gn 777 ffg load might be too light. I do know 777 has a more rapid pressure spike than real black and you have to dial it down a little.

Or maybe I should just start with 65gn of ffg Goex...?
 
My book (Handloaders Manual of Cartridge Conversions - 1987) lists the following:
450gr lead bullet, 30.0 gr of 4198, making 1300 fps - their source for this load listed as Barnes.

I've never loaded for this cartridge, so no idea how useful/accurate that load is.
 
According to Cartridges of the World:

350 gr Lead - 73 grs Fg - 1310 fps
350 gr Lead - 31 grs IMR 4198 - 1380 fps

450 gr Lead - 73 grs Fg - 1270 fps
450 gr Lead - 30 grs IMR 4198 - 1300 fps

476 gr Lead (Lyman 575213) - 30 grs IMR 4198 - 1250 fps

480 gr Lead - 70-73 grs Fg - 1250 fps (military duplicate)
 
I have only shot black powder in my Sniders so I can't help you with loading with smokeless. I am not sure which mk11 you have but I'll assume its a 3 bander? Starting off with .590 diameter bullets is a good way to avoid the problems getting minnies to perform properly. I weigh each load and have found that it helps. A wad punched from a milk carton works well to seperate the powder from your filler. If your wad is tight you can use the cartridge as a cookie cutter. Just have your lube in a shallow pan about "1/16 of an inch deep and then use a dowel to push it down on top of your wad. I don't use Kapok but it is very popular so go for it. Personally I use corn meal and I recommend it.
Maybe start with about 65 grains of 2F and work your way up. I use 69 grains (by weight) in my 3 bander but its barrel has been bobbed....

Cheers. Steve.
 
Snider load

Claven,
I dont know what range you are shooting at?.

I shoot at 50 yards & whereas I started at 60 grains FFG I am now shooting:
-50 grains FFG
-milk card disc
-corn meal or cream of wheat (to suit your bullet length) filler

I shoot a short .588" 475 grain bullet & a longer .577" 566 grain bullet from a PH mold. Both wrapped in 50% beeswax/Crisco
All in Jamison brass.

I find the Corn meal or COW is far more consistent than using either carded wool or cotton wool as a filler.

I am also finding (after about 600 rounds) trying FG, that FFG is a bit more uniform.

Cheers,
Peter (In Burlington, Ontario)
 
From the Small Arms Identification Series

.577 Pattern 1853 Rifle Musket & Snider-Enfield by Ian Skennerton
S.A.I.S. No. 20

Page 16

.577-in. Snider Marks III through IX: 480 grain projectile, 70 grains black powder .
Muzzle Velocity: 1,240 fps; then 711 fps at 500 yards and 458 fps at 1,000 yards.

The Snider-Enfield by Charles J. Purdon, Historical Arms Series # 2.
On page 8, Purdon mentions a 480 grain bullet with a charge of 85 grains of black powder.

In another publication, which I can’t remember, it mentioned using the 480 grain bullet in the long Snider 1/72 twist and the heaver 525 bullet in the short snider with the 1/48 twist.

I would recommend Skennerton’s book on the Snider.

‘.577 SNIDER-ENFIELD RIFLES & CARBINES’ Skennerton
British Service Longarms, 1866-c.1880.
Hard cover, 9½ x 6 in., 240 pp plus 8 colour plates, 100 illust., dust jacket, 2003. ISBN 0 949749 47 8. The definitive study of Britain's first breech-loading rifle, at first converted from Enfield muskets, then newly made with Mk III breech. The trials, development, rifle and carbine models are detailed; new information along with descriptions

Lee makes a suitable .577-in. 478 grain bullet mould.

I prefer black powder in the old rifles. Your Mk. II has an iron barrel and is a converted Enfield. The later Mk. III’s had the steel barrels.

I prefer using weight when loading black powder cartridges.
 
Do you have a reliable supply of .590 bullets? Perhaps you have a mold? I have found minnies to be troublesome at times. Adding tin to the melting pot improved accuracy considerably. I'm not sure if you are set up for casting so maybe you do not need any advice on the subject. Just remember if you are using the Magteck brass that it is designed for large pistol primers. And one closing note...wiping the bore every few shots is a good idea, as these guns are converted Enfields and the rifling is shallow to begin with. Add 150+ years and you have a fair bit of wear. Add fouling and.....well you know.:redface:

Cheers. Steve.
 
I use a very similar load as Biggles in my MarkIII short rifle( steel barrel). I find 65 grains of 2 F behind a paper patched "home cast from wheel weights" .577-in. 478 grain( Lee Mould) works awesome out to 70 yards. accuracy was poor until I started paper patching to fit the bore better. I pack the base of the bullet flush with home made bullet lube made from beeswax, deer tallow and olive oil as well as the grooves in the paper patched bullet. I use the same milk card disc and cream of wheat filler. i'm using sized .24 guage brass. I love my Snider!
 
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I'm loading a.592 405 grain lee REAL bullet with 60 grains of FFG, lubed with bore butter. But that's with 24g shot hulls. I shoot them from an 1861 3 band MKII**.

100 yard accuracy is decent, I can put 10 rounds on an 18" target. Fouling is about what you would expect, but my rifle has pitting in several parts of the bore.

Just got 24g brass and hope to get dies and a larger press this year to start loading them.

Claven, perhaps a pm to Smellie is in order? I got most of my info from him and got pretty decent accuracy right off the bat.

But that being said, Smellie and I have had many conversations about loading smokeless in pre MkIII Sniders, he advised me against it as the iron barrel/breach block of the earlier conversion rifles may not take the pressure well.

I've often wanted to try smokeless in my 3 bander but I think I better not temp fate!
 
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