577 Snider Loading

mooncoon

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For some time now I keep trying to find an accurate load for the 577 snider cartridge. Without question it is one of the most difficult to load accurately, at least for me. I bought a new mold in September and think I might finally be on the right track. I have been shooting the various loads out of a 577 double rifle and this newest slug seems to be grouping but initially the barrels were cross firing about 4" apart at 25 yards. Conventional wisdom says that you should shoot standing up and that you need to change the powder charge if the gun is either cross firing or firing apart but not crossing. I made a guess that increasing the charge would increase the recoil and perhaps rotate the barrels closer to the center line of the sights. I started with 70 grains of 1F powder compressed moderately heavily with a plunger then corn meal filler to the base of the bullet then the newest slug; a sort of collar button type. That load cross fired so I loaded another group of 6 shells with 80 grains of 1F and just to hedge my bets, a second 6 with 60 grains. Corn meal filler in all.
Low and behold, the 80 grains charge brought the two barrels together.

The photos below are the final 25 yard target and some of the bullets that I tried. Also are two original slugs; the mushroomed one is a snider bullet dug out of the rifle perm at Clover Point (50 years ago it was still there) and the round nosed slug covereed in oxide is a battle recovery souvenir from the US civil war. Worth noting that the skirt on the snider is much thicker than on the US mini and the cavity is filled with a brick like material giving it a very shallow cavity

The slugs to the left of the collar button one, one is a Lyman mold 611 with the base plug modified to give a thicker skirt and square ended cavity plus the slug has been lengthened a bit. The next two are two standard mini versions although with a modified skirt and finally some other molds that I tried

As an afterthought, it is perhaps significant that I tried using partial 20 guage muzzle loading shotgun wads as a filler between the powder and the bullet and my accuracy improved noticeably when I went to corn meal filler. At the same time as that change I also changed from filling the cavity of the mini with the same type of wadding to filling it with bullet lube. On the one slug that I recovered from snow, there was no sign of the grease type filler so it apparently is blown out during the firing.

cheers mooncoon

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I suspect the one on the left might be a custom Lee mold. The mold is aluminum double cavity and came in a Lee box with no descriptive printing on the box and no number on the mold. Written on the box in pen was 590 and 465 gr. As I cast it, it is about 457 grains and the base is about .590" while the beginning of the nose is about .580". I bought the mold in an estate sale up at Heffley

cheers mooncoon
 
I suspect the one on the left might be a custom Lee mold. The mold is aluminum double cavity and came in a Lee box with no descriptive printing on the box and no number on the mold. Written on the box in pen was 590 and 465 gr. As I cast it, it is about 457 grains and the base is about .590" while the beginning of the nose is about .580". I bought the mold in an estate sale up at Heffley

cheers mooncoon

That is the mold designed by Kerry Jenkinson lucky find he did a run of them but has none left I have 2 of them best shooting bullet I have found yet
 
Interesting; I have often wondered just what his mold looked like. I was hoping he might be at Heffley this year but unfortunately he did not make it.

cheers mooncoon
 
Base of the Snider slug was filled with clay. Likely it got baked into brick from the heat of firing.

The nose cavity was filled with the same substance, then the nose spun over to cover this. You can't see it on a factory round, but it is there.

Biggest problem with the Snider is that it is a breechloader...... and they were trying to get them to shoot as accurately as the '58 Enfields from which they were built. Their problem was that they were using MUZZLELOADING solutions for a BREECHLOADING problem.

Try getting that lovely toy to shoot by forgetting the military solutions (which mostly didn't work, anyway) and using a beechloading solution to your breechloading problem. Use plain-base bullets which are of sufficient diameter to fill the GROOVES, then go shooting.

Unless I miss my guess, this should help.

Good luck.
.
 
The original slugs were filled with a number of things over the years but one source said that what you are referring to as clay, was a mixture of clay and beeswax. Either way it is very hard and hard to say how much of that hardness was caused by being in the ground for at least 50 or 60 years until I found it, followed by being in a box of nic nacs for another 50 years.

I am thinking of trying the Lyman 611 (#3 from the left) or the slightly longer #2 from the left but changing the base plug to give a much shallower skirt. I am also thinking of opening the mold another few thous as well.

My groove diameter was somewhere in the 577 - 580 region (can't remember) and Kerry J's slug is unusual in that the base is about .010" over groove diameter and the nose about groove diameter. I am also wondering how much my improved group was caused by using a harder alloy. I originally was using 5% alloy to give a soft bullet that should upset into the bore (the bullet started out groove diameter as well). The most recent trials used a higher alloy lead and would have been harder. Having said that, the one bullet that I was able to recover from the snow last year, was a soft one and the rifling fully engraved the sides and the base skirt was undistorted.

At least there appears to be light at the end of the tunnel. I will also be trying Kerry J slugs in a 3 band snider and a sporting snider.

cheers mooncoon
 
I'm going to be loading a bunch of the .590" KAL Tool and Die "paradox" bullets soon (when my mould arrives) and trying them in a nice 3 band loaded in formed CBC 24 gauge brass.

I'll post the results when I do. The KAL bullet is considered by some to be the best available - it's very similar to the Jenkinson mould but holds more lube and is .590" both sides of the cane lure.

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