.577 snider what game size?

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Brentn

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I have an old 1858 snider enfield in .577 and 10 cartridges left for it. It's been passed down a couple generations to me, and I want to use it to hunt.
I've taken it to the range, and the accuracy is still good on it, and it shoots very well.

Could I take deer with this rifle?
What would be the longest range you guys would recommend with the stock open sights? This is defenitely not a MOA gun, but I want to see what I should be able to expect with it hoping that you give me some info.

Thanks.
 
It can certainly kill a man, so I'd have to think it is more than capable of dispatching any deer you're likely to encounter.
Range would be a matter of what you're comfortable with, using iron sights. IMHO
Reloading would be a good idea, I would think, to get optimum bullet preformance.
 
I think you would be far better advised to make some shells from 24 guage shotshells and practice with the gun first until you have a load combination that is reasonably accurate. I would expect the gun to shoot quite high if it still has the original sights. You might want to consider soldering an addition onto the front sight to allow you to shoot to the point of aim. Also sniders are quite challenging to get to shoot accurately so practice, practice, practice
The gun will certainly kill a deer but think of the effect of the bullet as being closer to an arrow than to a modern bullet. Expansion I would expect to be limited and more or less punch a hole through the chest. Shot placement will be very important. I have seen a bear killed with a 577 mini ball which is what you will be shooting and while it was an excellent shot, very little expansion.

cheers mooncoon
 
Mooncoon is right on with his comment about it shooting high. These were set to shoot on at 200 yards which was military thinking of the times. At 50 to 100 yards it will shoot 14 to 16 inches high with a correct sight picture. I can't think you shot it and didn't notice it was high. I have a slip on front sight which is about 1/4" higher than the original which does the job wonderfuully well. Original cartridges should be saved as relics or used for practise. Brass is available with the Magtech 24 guage brass shotshells being most affordable. These also have the user friendly large rifle primer. Bullets should be .590" ball or conical, not the .577" mini if you are serious about accuracy and about humanely dispatching a deer. You did not mention which model you have. the three band, which is the most common, will have a 1:72" twist rate which is most suitable for very short conicals or round ball. If it is a two band or "short rifle" it will have 1:48" twist rate which is slightly more suitable for the longer conicals but also will shoot very well with round ball. A cavalry carbine also has 1:48" twist in most cases. A cadet model is just a cut down three band so will have the slower 1:72" rate. With 70 - 80 grains of FG black powder, a card wad and a round ball lubed with BP lube the round ball would be sufficient for a well placed shot on deer sized game...opinion. I have done much testing and playing with the Snider. You can PM me if you require more info. Too bad that we are far apart. There are some very knowledgeable folks in your area who could help. I will carry my artillery carbine during deer season here this year with a duplex load of 8 grains of SR4759 under 70 grains of FG Swiss black powder with a 1/8" card wad seated under my .590" conical. Good luck, Dave
 
Front sight addition

mooncoon said:
I think you would be far better advised to make some shells from 24 guage shotshells and practice with the gun first until you have a load combination that is reasonably accurate. I would expect the gun to shoot quite high if it still has the original sights. You might want to consider soldering an addition onto the front sight to allow you to shoot to the point of aim. Also sniders are quite challenging to get to shoot accurately so practice, practice, practice
The gun will certainly kill a deer but think of the effect of the bullet as being closer to an arrow than to a modern bullet. Expansion I would expect to be limited and more or less punch a hole through the chest. Shot placement will be very important. I have seen a bear killed with a 577 mini ball which is what you will be shooting and while it was an excellent shot, very little expansion.

cheers mooncoon
Click to expand...

I noticed the same problem with my Snider and my Martini. Could you please describe how to go about putting on an "addition" to the front sight?

Cheers. Steve.
 
stevejones said:
I noticed the same problem with my Snider and my Martini. Could you please describe how to go about putting on an "addition" to the front sight?
Click to expand...

I have two or three guns that I intend to do it with. My intention is to start with some 1/4" thick stock and file a notch in the bottom that roughly matches the top of the front sight. Then use some abrasive paper and clean up the top of the front sight and soft solder the addition on top and finally file that into a blade. Take the gun to the range at that stage and file the addition down until the elevation is to where you want the gun to shoot to. I originally intended to solder on a piece of 1/4" square stock but from what was said above, I suspect that would not be high enough.
You can calculate how much you need to add vertically using the distance between sights and a simple ratio. On my rolling block for example, with a tang sight and about 36" between sights, it is .010" per 1" at 100 yards. Sniders and P53 enfields and similar with barrel mounted sights will require less than that and if the excess elevation at 100 yds is 1 foot, we are looking at raising the front sight a little less than .1" or if 2 feet high then a little less than .2"

cheers mooncoon
 
keep your gun original . remove rear sight and make a new lower rear sight . i did this with a 2 and 3 band guns . shoots on at 100yards a little high at 50 yards . i would feel safe shooting up too 100 yards no problem for deer cheers FRANK
 
It is pretty difficult to remove rear sights and to get them much lower. Also soft soldering an addition to the front sight does not alter the original front sight. All you have to do to return the gun to original configuration is unsolder the addition. If you remove the rear sight you also stand a good chance of misplacing it when it comes time to sell the gun.

cheers mooncoon
 
I have a martini with a front sight that was built up with a small peice of metal about 1/4" high and held in place with a gob of epoxy.
 
Two corrections, it's an 1868 and not an 1858 and last thing is that they are re-made cartridges purchased from ellwood epps a year or two ago. As described in this thread they are made from 24 gauge brass.

They cost me 8$ a piece... I was dicking around the first time with them, and to tell you the truth I was never really trying to sight the rifle in, just trying to hit a 4 liter milk jug that I missed.
If I remember correctly, with the sight all the way down, it was hitting towards the left, a little low to be exact at the 50 yard line. However, like I said, I was dicking around with it and not really trying...
Waste of 80$...

Anyways, I think I'll give it another go and really concentrate this time around, so where the POA and POI lies and remember it. I don't want to alter the sights, and this isn't going to be a regular hunting rifle. It is going to be used at least once, just for the familys sake to say that "yes, I took a deer, like my grandfather and his father before him".
I'm reading here that shot placement will be vital, so all the more reason to take it out again and really try next time at 100 yards and see how she does.
I suppose I really should give reloading a try for this one, as it's so expensive... I've never reloaded before, but I do understand bullet weights and powder weights and primer types, just don't have the equipment to do it myself.

Thanks for the advice guys, I'll update this thread next time I take the rifle out, probably within the next month or so for sure when I get my truck again.
 
You may find that it shoots roundball better than minis. I suspect you may have to load them with a patch into the shell. At least for me, sniders have been an extreme challenge to shoot well. I also think that mini diameter and skirt thickness are critical to each specific gun and you may need to play around with that. Loading is relatively easy; the gun is a single shot and you do not need to size the cases although you will probably need something to keep the slug in place because it will be a little loose after you have fired the case once.

cheers mooncoon
 
You don't adjust windage with Snider sights. If you go over to the "British Militaria Forum" you will see a thread which has been saved dealing with quick attach or "add on" front sights. I just got a plastic plumbing fixture which would slip on the front (I cut a thin slot lengthways with my dremel) and then shaped it to twist around the front sight as a bayonet would. I then epoxied a 1/4" higher than original...sight to the front and it shot where I wanted it to. Windage is just a dremel away! Dave
 
My snider shoots surprisingly well with a .590 roundball. I listened to Dantforth and got things going quite well. You can reload your shells as I do without a press. Use a fine machinists punch to remove the primer, support the shell on a small length of dowel to prevent damage to the case mouth and push the primer into the pocket. Use a sliding BP measure (I find I only need 50-60 grains in my cadet carbine) and fill the case with your load of BP. Place an over powder card on the powder and seat you ball over that. Most guys use a homeade lube solution over top but I've been dripping melted candlewax in to seal and lube my ammo and it shoots quite well. Keep in mind this is not a long range gun and get a little practice and I'm sure you can take a deer with it. Good luck.
 
Brentn said:
I have an old 1858 snider enfield in .577 and 10 cartridges left for it. It's been passed down a couple generations to me, and I want to use it to hunt.
I've taken it to the range, and the accuracy is still good on it, and it shoots very well.
Click to expand...

I dearly hope you have not been practicing at the range with very valuable original ammo. Regarding deer hunting, it will kill a deer no problem if you shoot it in a vital area. There is a good chance that bullet will go right through the deer, side to side. Like the others have said, expect little if any expansion. The large caliber is your 'expansion'.
 
Reloading

I've found that the shorter the projectile is in relation to its diameter (thus roundball) the better its accuracy. I have a minnie that shoots very well in mine which is a cut down 3 band. I get 3 inch groups with it consistantly. I use corn meal filler in the case but I suppose the other fillers work just as well.

My thanks re. the front sight fixes.

Steve
 
I don't use fillers....they were just one more thing to go wrong or to effect accuracy. I have tried them but failed to see any advantage and did see disadvantages. Best accuracy and reliability have been obtained with powder, wad, 590" ball or conical and my beeswax/crisco/olive oil mixture over the top which not only lubes but also stabilzes the load in the case and seals from moisture. I have also found that the conicals with hollow bases do not shoot as well as those with solid bases. Dave
 
Dantforth said:
I don't use fillers....they were just one more thing to go wrong or to effect accuracy. I have tried them but failed to see any advantage and did see disadvantages. Best accuracy and reliability have been obtained with powder, wad, 590" ball or conical and my beeswax/crisco/olive oil mixture over the top which not only lubes but also stabilzes the load in the case and seals from moisture. I have also found that the conicals with hollow bases do not shoot as well as those with solid bases. Dave
Click to expand...

I see, from your earlier post, you use a duplex load. Please, explain the advantage/disadvantages you are finding with this practice? Primer used?
Thanks in advance
 
Fillers

I use fillers to "fill" the case. 65 grains of 2F does not fill a snider case so something has to go in there. Cornmeal has the advantage of its cleaning action each time you fire a round. I put a heavy cardboard wad on top that is oversize so it has to be formed into a cup to insert it on top of the load. Then a minnie (short one w/heavy skirt) is dipped into lube and place into the cartridge. I then compress the load just enough to seat the minnie.

Steve
 
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