590a1 or 870p. Help me choose my next one
- Thread starter anmckenn
- Start date
Leviathan024
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- GP Alberta
Both are great. I give a thumbs up to the 590A1 SPX
Something to note about about Mil-Spec 3443E and Mossberg being the only one to have "passed"...it's because Mossberg was the only manufacturer to submit a decent shotgun when the initial trials came about. Remington knew it would be a pointless test to pass because there was no way they could compete with Mossberg's cheaper price and everyone knew the contract would be awarded to the lowest bidder. At the time Remington also had well over 90% of the market when it came to LE sales, so having the extra Mil-Spec 3443E certification would have done nothing for them anyway...and 3000rds of maximum loads (NOT magnum as many believe) is nothing for an 870...or a 1300...or an M12...or an M37...or even an A5!
The 590-A1 was also designed from the start to meet the test's requirements as the their 500 was lacking in too many areas to even qualify. Re-designing the 500 in order to submit a shotgun for Mil-Spec 3443E testing was probably the single smartest marketing move Mossberg has ever made in it's existence...and marketing is all it really was...and it paid off big time for them!
Another thing that should be pointed out is that, to this day, the US Military continues to buy NEW Remington 870 shotguns...Mil-Spec 3443E or not!
The 590-A1 was also designed from the start to meet the test's requirements as the their 500 was lacking in too many areas to even qualify. Re-designing the 500 in order to submit a shotgun for Mil-Spec 3443E testing was probably the single smartest marketing move Mossberg has ever made in it's existence...and marketing is all it really was...and it paid off big time for them!
Another thing that should be pointed out is that, to this day, the US Military continues to buy NEW Remington 870 shotguns...Mil-Spec 3443E or not!
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i am going to put my two cents worth in here as i have both models. one is a 590a1 and a remington 870 police magnum . the remington gun pump action is smoother than the mossberg but other than that i would have to rate the mossberg equal or better . the shell lifter up out of the way, the safety , the pump release ,the larger trigger opening on the mossberg if you are wearing gloves are all pluses . the pump handle on my mossberg stops about half an inch short of the receiver and is more jam proof than the remington as it comes back tight to the receiver. ditto for the forward stroke too. try before you buy as others have said .as an afterthought my 870 guns have never let me down but i did have problems with a previous 590 a1 dropping shells which i believe was related to a sticky pump release.
It goes;
Vintage 870P or Wingmaster >>> 590A1 > any recent 870.
The old 870 that built the model's reputation was in a different league, right up there with the Model 12 and other great old pump designs when it came to smoothness and cosmetics, but was much more modern and cheaper to produce.
The newer ones? I'd rather have a 590.
Vintage 870P or Wingmaster >>> 590A1 > any recent 870.
The old 870 that built the model's reputation was in a different league, right up there with the Model 12 and other great old pump designs when it came to smoothness and cosmetics, but was much more modern and cheaper to produce.
The newer ones? I'd rather have a 590.
I cant say much about the 590, but I can talk about 870. I've had two issues with it. It didn't like the cheap Winchester sporting clay loads that you get at Wallmart. It just didn't want to eject. That was the only ammo that has given me that issue. Everything else has cycled perfectly. And second, the finish is crap. I was shooting in the rain one afternoon and the gun got pretty wet. After I got home I just threw it in the safe. I came back to it the next day and it had already started to rust. It came off pretty easy and was nothing to serious, but still pretty sh*tty. Now I keep it well oiled and it hasent come back.
I personally like the location of the safety and slide release, I find them vey easy to operate. But its just what I'm use to. I dont have butter fingers, so naturally loading the gun is not a problem. The shell riser isnt as bad as some people say, just make sure the slide is closed. I can load my 870 pretty fast, gloves or not. And I think the whole mill spec thing is a bunch of sh*t. I have thousands of rounds fired through my 870. And a lot of what I shoot through it is buckshot and slugs. It's showing no sighns of ware, and other than the winchester ammo its been 100% reliable.
Your probably going to have to get both. I've been very happy with my 870, but I've been thinking of getting a 590A1 for a few months now. I know its just a matter of time before I get one.
Plus you can use a pistol grip without ruining the ergonomics
I personally like the location of the safety and slide release, I find them vey easy to operate. But its just what I'm use to. I dont have butter fingers, so naturally loading the gun is not a problem. The shell riser isnt as bad as some people say, just make sure the slide is closed. I can load my 870 pretty fast, gloves or not. And I think the whole mill spec thing is a bunch of sh*t. I have thousands of rounds fired through my 870. And a lot of what I shoot through it is buckshot and slugs. It's showing no sighns of ware, and other than the winchester ammo its been 100% reliable.
Your probably going to have to get both. I've been very happy with my 870, but I've been thinking of getting a 590A1 for a few months now. I know its just a matter of time before I get one.
Plus you can use a pistol grip without ruining the ergonomics
ChrisAlston
Regular
- Location
- Calgary, Alberta
Both the 590 and the 870 are great guns, I really think it comes down to personal preference. I've shot a lot of 870's (carried them for work too), own a D.A. Grizzly, and also own a 590. I myself prefer the ergonomics of the 590, it just feels very intuitive with the position of the safety and slide release and I LOVE how there's nothing impeding access to the mag tube (no shell carrier or gate hanging down). I can work just as well with an 870, but I think I'd take the 590 if given the choice. Both guns are proven reliable and durable and used by military/LE. My advice is to handle both, shoot both if possible, and just pick the one you like better. Or buy both..
the Dakota kid
CGN Regular
- Location
- London, ON
I have an older Wingmaster with a police barrel and other accessories/upgrades. I must say the only thing I don't like about the 870 is the location of the slide release button. I'm not a huge Mossberg fan. I find the action to be nowhere near the smoothness of the 870. 590's and 500's are alright but I'd take an older Wingmaster that has been "tac'd out" any day. Just my $.02
I haven't owned a lot of SG's like some here but I have owned 2 Rem's(Wingmaster & 870P) and 3 Mossberg's (18.5" 590A1, 20" 590A1 BlackWater and a 14"590 Compact). I'm not LE or Mil so I don't depend on them to keep my out of harms way. I just shoot them for recreational use.
I only own 2 SG's now....20"BlackWater and 14" 590. I guess I prefer Mossberg.
I only own 2 SG's now....20"BlackWater and 14" 590. I guess I prefer Mossberg.
Greenhorse six
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Aside from the heavy barrel [ which was added at the request of the U.S.Navy more then a little while after it passed the tests.] ,longer mag tube and end cap it's still a 500,and the U.S. military buy more 500's then 590's, just look at pictures of U.S. forces in Iraq and Afghanistan.
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It's worth saying that most of the well known tactical shotgun trainers out there use an 870 for a pump, I'm talking about Louis Awerbuck, Brian Hoffner, Clint Smith, Chris costa, Rob Haught, etc.
Me personally I prefer the Ithaca 37 over the 870 and the Mossberg, but not to the extent where I'd trade my perfectly good 870, or a Mossberg for that matter, for one.
Me personally I prefer the Ithaca 37 over the 870 and the Mossberg, but not to the extent where I'd trade my perfectly good 870, or a Mossberg for that matter, for one.
agreed, 100 percent. The 870s ive had, including the police max ( 1200 bux!) were both finicky with ammo. They would also give you the odd jam. Mossbergs eat anything and i have never had a jam of any sort.
Greenhorse six
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Another plus for the mossberg,if your ejector should break,you can replace it yourself in the field, if you have the part,If it fails on the remmy,well, I'll loan you my old 590 tell you get your 870 back from the smith.lol
Good thing they don't break often and the gun can still be operated with a broken ejector if needed. I doubt many mossberg shooters carry a spare ejector in the field but if you live away from gunsmiths and have to order in a part at least it is easier to do.
Both guns are good to go(OK maybe not some newer remingtons but old ones are easy to find) and it really boils down to personal preference and how you want to run your gun.
Greenhorse six
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Just to illustrate a point about how easy it is to mantain,if needed,that's all.
The question always winds up ending in an argument!
Both have seen use in conflicts around the world...and both have excelled at the tasks they were intended to perform. The 870 is used by the Canadian Forces. Despite the 590-A1 being Milspec...the 870 actually has more military and LE users than the 590-A1 so what does the Milspec actually do for it? A big factor in the US decision to accept the 590-A1 was a cheaper price tag.
Both guns have a multitude of accessories for them...all useless IMHO. A standard stock and forearm, an 18"-20" bead or rifle sight barrel, and a 2 or 3 shot extension is all that should be bolted to a shotgun...everything else adds weight, gets in the way and slows you down.
Try both and get the one that fits you best...then take the $$$ you want to spend on those useless accessories and buy extra ammo to practice with!
Personally, I find the 870 to be the faster handling, slimmer profiled, longer lasting gun. The safety positioning and carrier layout has never been an issue for me...but then again I only have a little over 85 000rds fired thru the platform so it may become an issue with time!
I have 870's, and I am trained on the 870 and I say that it is a fine gun. The Mossy is a great gun too, and I have owned one, but price had nothing to do with why the US adopted it. Remington did not even submit a gun in the test trials. I think Remington's corner on the LE market keeps them busy enough, and as said, many militaries already carry them.
The safety on the 870 is a non-issue to anyone who actually trains with their gun. The Mossy's safety is better for the average lefty though. Thickness of barrels etc? Has anyone ever seen where a Remmy barrel has been a problem?
Unless you are using the barrel as a club or pry bar I am pretty sure the barrel thickness makes no difference. I like 590A1 with the thick barrel however I don't think I would ever wear out a thin barrel.
