5R milspec
- Thread starter Leakingaz
- Start date
Sorry, 5R being " more inherently accurate" is WRONG.
That particular rifle shoots no better or any worse than any other factory rifle. It does have a nice stock, it does have a bedding block system, but the action is 100% Remington 700 and the barrel is 100% mass-produced. Remington makes great guns, All my customs are based on 700 actions, but on average they are no better or worse than anything else in a factory gun.
5R is a personal preference thing, not an evidence-based thing. It has a faithful following, but I can tell you it is purely a case of shooter faith that makes the difference. Krieger actually has true 5R rifling, as trademarked by the guy that brought it to promenence, and they have found absolutely zero functional difference between 5R and standard rifling. It is there to satisfy pure consumer damnd. That is all.
That particular rifle shoots no better or any worse than any other factory rifle. It does have a nice stock, it does have a bedding block system, but the action is 100% Remington 700 and the barrel is 100% mass-produced. Remington makes great guns, All my customs are based on 700 actions, but on average they are no better or worse than anything else in a factory gun.
5R is a personal preference thing, not an evidence-based thing. It has a faithful following, but I can tell you it is purely a case of shooter faith that makes the difference. Krieger actually has true 5R rifling, as trademarked by the guy that brought it to promenence, and they have found absolutely zero functional difference between 5R and standard rifling. It is there to satisfy pure consumer damnd. That is all.
- Location
- Prince Albert, Sk
Maybe it is a subconscious thing making folks think they shoot well.
I have heard some say that it is easier to clean. Myself, I couldn't say either way, seems to be the same for me as anything else.
Maybe some think it is cool just to say they have "5R"
I have heard some say that it is easier to clean. Myself, I couldn't say either way, seems to be the same for me as anything else.
Maybe some think it is cool just to say they have "5R"
TERMINATOR101CA
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- TORONTO, CANADA
Oh noes....another thread about this.
from the factory i imagine all good barrels will shoot the same, but i would like to see a comparison of a few otherwise identical guns with different rifling shooting groups after say 50000 rounds and see if any of the wonder rifling profiles out there will last longer then the others
Well, the interesting part that i read in a recent article that grabbed my attention, is the writer claimed a .330 group @ 100 yds then repeated the same group .330 @ 200 yds. Yikes, that just doesn't seem right with the wheat and chaff separation department. If that is so, then there must be something that i don't understand with simple math. But if it is a fact , then I want one
....Mother of god.
I have looked through borescopes at Reminton's 5R barrels, and they are absolutely indistinguishabel from their standard stainless barrels with the exception of the number of grooves. They are still full of tooling marks, gouges and everything else that you find on ANY factory barrel.
Bending a hammer forged barrel to make it straight is an admission of their mass-produced quality control. He does not mention stress relieving after such "improvement".
As to 5R, this is a rifling developed and trademarked by Boots Obermeyer, a legendary barrel maker and fullbore shooter.
If you go to his website, he answers the question of what it is. You will note no reference to accuracy...
I still think the 5R is a good investment for someone wanting a good factory firearm. Its stock is good quality and need not be replaced, and the stainless action is a nice esthetic touch, but I have dealt with many 5R shooters that have scrapped their barrels because they have not been able to achieve the accuracy they wanted.
The anecdote from the emplyee is compelling, but no different than getting a car recommendation from the salesman.
These guns have as much chance as any to produce accurate results, but precision comes down to the holy trinity:
Accurate firearm
Accurately Loaded Ammunition
Accurate shooter.
Your results are only as good as the worst of the three.
I think when they send it to the barrel bender it means they put it to scrap...
I believe sent to the bender means they are destroyed not straightened.
As for the accuracy. I haven't seen one yet that won't shoot sub .5 moa with 168 federal gold. I have seen people continue to refuse to try this ammo and only use their handloads or cheaper ammo. In which case is it the rifle or the ammo?
As for the inherent accuracy. I believe the twist rate of 1:11.25 plays a large part. Probably more so than the 5r aspect. It's ideal for 168 and 175. How many rifles can you get off the shelf with this twist rate? Most are 1:12 or 1:10. The Tikka which is also touted as very accurate out of the box I recall has a 1:11 twist rate. My Canadian military AR10 which shoots the same ammo as the 5r is almost as accurate. Guess what. 1:11.25 twist rate and 24" barrel just like the 5r.
Think what you want about the 5r. The ones I've shot when using Federal gold match shoots like a custom tactical rifle. The ones that don't shoot are the exception. Before blaming the rifle I would want to rule out, ammo, optics and the shooter.
The results Ive had with the 5r seem to be very common. There's lots of evidence of people having the same results. Both on the web and of you ask around locally.
As for the accuracy. I haven't seen one yet that won't shoot sub .5 moa with 168 federal gold. I have seen people continue to refuse to try this ammo and only use their handloads or cheaper ammo. In which case is it the rifle or the ammo?
As for the inherent accuracy. I believe the twist rate of 1:11.25 plays a large part. Probably more so than the 5r aspect. It's ideal for 168 and 175. How many rifles can you get off the shelf with this twist rate? Most are 1:12 or 1:10. The Tikka which is also touted as very accurate out of the box I recall has a 1:11 twist rate. My Canadian military AR10 which shoots the same ammo as the 5r is almost as accurate. Guess what. 1:11.25 twist rate and 24" barrel just like the 5r.
Think what you want about the 5r. The ones I've shot when using Federal gold match shoots like a custom tactical rifle. The ones that don't shoot are the exception. Before blaming the rifle I would want to rule out, ammo, optics and the shooter.
The results Ive had with the 5r seem to be very common. There's lots of evidence of people having the same results. Both on the web and of you ask around locally.
I personally believe the biggest factor is that somone stood up to them and said that they should not sacrifice quality for a dime. That was always their problem. I despise Remington and I would buy three of them if I had the money. This says a lot.
Barrels are occasionally bent by gunsmiths and barrel makers to put them straight. Good barrel makers stress relieve afterward though. On a hunting rifle it doesn't matter as you shot will be cold-bore, but a non stress relieved barrel will likely not allow string shooting without seeing a shift in POI
TERMINATOR101CA
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- TORONTO, CANADA
That's what I understood too.
My 2007 5r in .308.
Two 5 round groups with 168 Federal gold match. Both shot on different days. Note: very little to no wind, at 100 yards and I had an excellent front bag (which has since been stolen). Front bag and back bean bag. Shot in Northern BC (air is drier which may help with smaller groups)
Scope: Zeiss Conquest 6.5-20x 50mm Rapid Z 1000 yard reticle. In Leupold PRW rings and bases. The trigger was later set to 3 pounds. However with the first group and the best group the trigger was stock.
I'd also like to point out that if you're going for groups, then the targets do make a huge difference. The ones I have here seem to work well due to the red cross and black lines. Also it's easier to get good groups if you sight in, then click down or up on the scope so you don't shoot your aiming point.
The only way I'm going to get anything substantially better than this rifle is build a custom bench rifle. Even a custom tactical rifle is unlikely to shoot much better than this, if better at all.
Two 5 round groups with 168 Federal gold match. Both shot on different days. Note: very little to no wind, at 100 yards and I had an excellent front bag (which has since been stolen). Front bag and back bean bag. Shot in Northern BC (air is drier which may help with smaller groups)
Scope: Zeiss Conquest 6.5-20x 50mm Rapid Z 1000 yard reticle. In Leupold PRW rings and bases. The trigger was later set to 3 pounds. However with the first group and the best group the trigger was stock.
I'd also like to point out that if you're going for groups, then the targets do make a huge difference. The ones I have here seem to work well due to the red cross and black lines. Also it's easier to get good groups if you sight in, then click down or up on the scope so you don't shoot your aiming point.
The only way I'm going to get anything substantially better than this rifle is build a custom bench rifle. Even a custom tactical rifle is unlikely to shoot much better than this, if better at all.
One other point. Yes it does hold this accuracy out to 200 and 300 yards. I haven't tried further yet.
I've also shot a few other 5R rifles and they shot sub .5 moa. Even at 200 yards.
No I'm not a particularly skilled shooter. These were my first attempts at shooting for groups with a rifle other than a .22LR. I shot .22LR during the winter at 20 meteres and then went out in the Summer with the 5R.
Sight in was 3 rounds of 165 Federal Fusion. Perfect tracking and repeatability. Then 168 federal gold. One click difference. By the way the 165 fusion shot 3/4 moa out of this rifle. Not bad for hunting rounds.
I've also shot this rifle 5 rounds, no warm up, no fouling shot and no sighters. The group was .5 moa. Dead on first shot. A bit larger than the others, but still fantastic.
I've also shot a few other 5R rifles and they shot sub .5 moa. Even at 200 yards.
No I'm not a particularly skilled shooter. These were my first attempts at shooting for groups with a rifle other than a .22LR. I shot .22LR during the winter at 20 meteres and then went out in the Summer with the 5R.
Sight in was 3 rounds of 165 Federal Fusion. Perfect tracking and repeatability. Then 168 federal gold. One click difference. By the way the 165 fusion shot 3/4 moa out of this rifle. Not bad for hunting rounds.
I've also shot this rifle 5 rounds, no warm up, no fouling shot and no sighters. The group was .5 moa. Dead on first shot. A bit larger than the others, but still fantastic.
I am glad to see that your point was proven. I dislike when people are skeptical just for the sake of being skeptical.
One other point. Yes it does hold this accuracy out to 200 and 300 yards. I haven't tried further yet.
I've also shot a few other 5R rifles and they shot sub .5 moa. Even at 200 yards. /QUOTE]
Nice groups, looks like you have a fair amount of trigger time. So, how does the group size stay the same with the 5 R @ 200 ?
Called around to a few dealers, no info at all if still in production , Remington web site don't show a listing, any dealers stock the 5R ?
Thanks for the input guys
