6.35 Velodog cartridge

starpuss

starpuss

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Ok. Right now I have two 6.35 Velodog cartridge antique guns. Witch both of them are 12 shot revolvers. Witch from what I see is real rare. The old owner of one of them is a good friend of mine and told me his dad had well over 500 rd’s of 25acp shoot in one of them but now it is starting to show it’s age. And will not lock up right.

But last night I was able to find a parts gun, maybe I can make one out of the two of them.

Now this is what I wanted to know.

Is it “safe” to shoot 25acp in a 6.35 velodog gun? I was told buy the old owner that the acp is 20-30% more power full then the 6.35. and lots of people do that. (This is stock smokeless ammo. Not black powder.) And both guns date from 1893-1895 from what I was told.


12shot.jpg
 
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I am a bit puzzled in that cartridges of the world does not list a 6.35 velodog and I would think you would have problems chambering a 25 auto shell in a velodog gun because it is rimless. The 5.5 velodog shell is a long thin shell and I made my own from 5/16" solid stock brass. I have not shot the gun yet and would in your case certainly be hesitant to shoot 25 auto shells in your guns. Also think you need to double check the bore to be sure it is actually .25 caliber

cheers mooncoon
 
I strongly suspect that these arms are made for the standard 6.35 Browning aka 25 ACP ctg. ALFA 1911 catalogue shows 3 pages of revolvers in this calibre and others in 32 ACP aka 7.65 Browning. Velo dog cal revolvers have a 4 page section.
 
The .25 ACP didn't come out until the early 1900's (1906 or there abouts). This site lists the 5.5/5.75 Velodog cartridges as being introduced about 1894 but does not show any 6.35 Velodog rounds: h ttp://members.shaw.ca/cstein0/revolver It might be worth your while to have a casting made of a chamber and maybe get the bore slugged while you're at it. Once you have these dimensions you can check them against the cartridges listed on the site to see what you actually have.
 
yes the gun is 100% for sure 25 cal 6.35 Velodog
there are lots of guns made in the cal

also i stuck a 25acp into it. looks like it way made for this gun , nice fit.

i am doing to searching on google and all i can find out is this

:"These were designed to use the 6.35 mm Velo-Dog Cartridge. They also were capable of using the 6.35 Browning Cartridge: witch is 25acp / 25auto"

also what i am trying to do now is recheck what year this gun was made. so i know if it is antique or if i need to weld it up.
 
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If it fits and you're concerned about hot loads, get some 25 ACP dies, remove the bullets from the cartridges and just bring the load down a little - or build your own ammo from scratch (by purchasing empty brass & bullets).

I strongly believe in NOT using stock ammo in antiques. By the way, I also have a very similar Belgian gun (a Bulldog in 320 caliber) and, although it is in near perfect shape, I don't think I'd trust that thing with modern commercial ammo. As you probably know, those little Belgian marvels were all hand built, all the way down to the individual screws. They were intended to be tiny guns kept in a drawer for the unlikely scenario you'd get attacked in your home, etc... but weren't really intended for extensive usage (like target shooting, plinking, etc).

Bottom line, reloading is the only way to be safe and stay away from commercial ammo - even if it fits!
 
How did you Date the Belgian Gun pre 1898 ?
Most of them type belgian guns have the Oval with the Crown ontop of the Oval with ELG inside.
Thats post 1893.
Im not saying its not Pre 1898 just wondering how your dateing it.
My Catalog shows a pile of them type of revolvers to but doesnt really date them.
As to the ammo sounds like it does shoot the guns loose eh, so i guess it depends on how nice and tight you want to keep the gun.
 
dingus said:
How did you Date the Belgian Gun pre 1898 ?
Most of them type belgian guns have the Oval with the Crown ontop of the Oval with ELG inside.
Thats post 1893.
Im not saying its not Pre 1898 just wondering how your dateing it.
My Catalog shows a pile of them type of revolvers to but doesnt really date them.
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I don't know about his, but mine came with a US certificate of compliance (for export purposes). The gun was purchased off a fellow CGN'er who probably got it from the States (or maybe the guy before him or something). It does say on the letter that the gun is a pre-1898 manufacture and that the caliber qualifies for antique status as well (being a 320 Bulldog), but it doesn't go into more detail. As far as I know, those guns don't even have any serial numbers on them, so the only real way to go about it is by model type.

That being said, I am sure there are ways to confirm antique status 100%. My best bet would be the french/belgian gun forums. I've been on their forums and there are quite a few belgian antique collectors there... but they all speak french, lol! Not a problem for me, but could definitely be a challenge for someone who doesn't...

b:
 
That Picture of the gun you Posted in the orignal frist post is for sale on GB right now.
I just noticed it was the same gun.
Id like to be able to date theses so they can Legally be imported as a 12 shot 25 Acp is kinda a fun gun.
Not to sure about them screws sticking outa the trigger gard tho.
I always wondered why the Belgians left the screws sticking out on almost all there guns.
Then you look at a American SAA colt or British WG.
 
dingus said:
That Picture of the gun you Posted in the orignal frist post is for sale on GB right now.
I just noticed it was the same gun.
Id like to be able to date theses so they can Legally be imported as a 12 shot 25 Acp is kinda a fun gun.
Not to sure about them screws sticking outa the trigger gard tho.
I always wondered why the Belgians left the screws sticking out on almost all there guns.
Then you look at a American SAA colt or British WG.
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yup thats the one. i sold mine and had the seller relist that one. so i did not need it no more. and i paid him $25.00 for his time to relist.

also i called the rcmp to check on geting a antique letter for that gun. and they say it's not a antique.
 
I tried to get a antique letter for on that was on collectors firearms was told not antique
 
starpuss said:
yup thats the one. i sold mine and had the seller relist that one. so i did not need it no more. and i paid him $25.00 for his time to relist.

also i called the rcmp to check on geting a antique letter for that gun. and they say it's not a antique.
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Ok That makes Sence i was wondering how you were getting status when i could not.
I think the Truth is they very well could be pre 1898 but we cant prove it cause the proof mark is the post 1893 mark with the crown.
CFC would have to be able to Prove its Not antique if the gun was in Canada.

Kinda like the situation with the one line address Remy Derringers. they started makeing them in 1888 till 1911 or so but CFC wont letter any even tho most of them could well be pre 1898.
 
dingus said:
Ok That makes Sence i was wondering how you were getting status when i could not.
I think the Truth is they very well could be pre 1898 but we cant prove it cause the proof mark is the post 1893 mark with the crown.
CFC would have to be able to Prove its Not antique if the gun was in Canada.

Kinda like the situation with the one line address Remy Derringers. they started makeing them in 1888 till 1911 or so but CFC wont letter any even tho most of them could well be pre 1898.
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So what happens if a gun is already in the country? They won't issue you a letter, but won't tell you to turn it in either and/or charge you for its' possession? It's kind of a contradiction, isn't it?

Besides, before they tell you to surrender your property (any property), they would have to prove beyond reasonable grounds that it's illegal (as everyone in our legal system is presumed innocent until proven guilty). So, by the same process, the citizen should be given the benefit of doubt when an antique gun's markings are insufficient to date it post 1898.

I just don't understand their policy on this... They should either issue a letter OR charge someone criminally for possession of an unregistered/prohibited handgun when they have such grounds (logically speaking). In legal terms, there is no gray zone... it's either they have proof that it's not an antique or they don't. It shouldn't be any different with antiques coming in from the States (ie. benefit of the doubt in favor of the citizen requesting an antique letter, unless the CFC can prove the gun is not an antique per C.C. regulations).

:bangHead:
 
762mm said:
So what happens if a gun is already in the country? They won't issue you a letter, but won't tell you to turn it in either and/or charge you for its' possession? It's kind of a contradiction, isn't it?

Besides, before they tell you to surrender your property (any property), they would have to prove beyond reasonable grounds that it's illegal (as everyone in our legal system is presumed innocent until proven guilty). So, by the same process, the citizen should be given the benefit of doubt when an antique gun's markings are insufficient to date it post 1898.

I just don't understand their policy on this... They should either issue a letter OR charge someone criminally for possession of an unregistered/prohibited handgun when they have such grounds (logically speaking). In legal terms, there is no gray zone... it's either they have proof that it's not an antique or they don't. It shouldn't be any different with antiques coming in from the States (ie. benefit of the doubt in favor of the citizen requesting an antique letter, unless the CFC can prove the gun is not an antique per C.C. regulations).

:bangHead:
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Well theres lotsa them Double barreled Derringers them Remingtons that have one line barrel addresses that are sold as Antique in Canada at gun shows Ect.
They get sold in the EE now and then.
CFC wont letter them but cant prove there modern either there was a big court case in Texas over a DB remy deringer and it got tossed cause the (the goverment) could not prove it was Modern so if the USA goverment cant prove it i cant see our RCMP doing any better.
Its kinda Dumb but whats new eh :rolleyes:
I just Bought a nice little Two line address Derrionger with real sambar Stag grips that was suposed to have shot its way outa a card game :) back in the 1800s
I have no real fear it will be seized because its a two line patent address derringer.
But i would Not import a one line address one.
Thats why Joe salter stoped Shipping to Canada for a year or Two.
A Canuck bought a one line address remy derringer and Customs seized it $1500 later he got the gun back i dont know the whole story but it pissed off Salter enough he stoped shipping guns up here.
Now he wont ship without a RCMP letter.
Theres something twisted and stupid about this thats for sure.
Most of the belgian guns you see with the crown over the ELG in and Oval could very well be Antique.
one thing tho if you see a PV with a tiny Lion with its tail in the Air that proofmark was started to be used in 1898.
If CFC sees that proof then they for sure know the gun is post 1897.
 
762mm said:
?

Besides, before they tell you to surrender your property (any property), they would have to prove beyond reasonable grounds that it's illegal (as everyone in our legal system is presumed innocent until proven guilty). So, by the same process, the citizen should be given the benefit of doubt when an antique gun's markings are insufficient to date it post 1898.
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That is not particularly true; most likely the gun would be seized as a prohib but you would not be charged because it could not be proved to be antique. The RCMP administers the law so they do not have to completely obey the law --- they can have policies and act on the basis of the policies

cheers mooncoon
 
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