Of course 6.5's have been popular for moose in Europe. But no way do moose kills with 6.5's outnumber moose kills world wide with all other cartridges. Everyone started hunting moose with centerfire cartridges during the same time period. It's not like Europeans were killing moose with 6.5's thousands of years before North Americans got their hands on a centerfire rifle.
6.5 Creedmoor for moose?
- Thread starter Slamfire76239
- Start date
Of course 6.5's have been popular for moose in Europe. But no way do moose kills with 6.5's outnumber moose kills world wide with all other cartridges. Everyone started hunting moose with centerfire cartridges during the same time period. It's not like Europeans were killing moose with 6.5's thousands of years before North Americans got their hands on a centerfire rifle.
Sure, if your trying to split hairs. Fact is we don’t know the numbers but we all know the 6.5’s are adequate. Like folks say the 30-30 has shot more deer, maybe in past, maybe never. Fact is, like the 6.5’s, it kills.
Enjoy your day.
Not that much smaller. From all I've read, the typical European moose--found in Norway, Sweden, Finland, Latvia, and Russia--runs about 800 lbs. for males. So approximately the size of the Shiras moose found in the northwestern US. Also it's generally acknowledged that moose, despite their size, are not really that hard to kill. Although very large, they lack the stamina and strength of elk, for example. I've hunted and killed both and would agree with that comparison.
Splitting hairs?
He made a statement that 6.5's have probably accounted for 51% or more of all moose kills in the history of cartridges. I think most people would find that unlikely, but people can believe what they want.
Lots of moose have been killed with 6.5mm's.
Larger calibers are not replacements for poor shot placement, and you don't need a .375 to kill a moose.
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As I said, splitting hairs. Maybe more moose have been killed with other calibers…who cares? Fact is the 6.5’s work.
Enjoy your night.
Lot's of moose have been killed by many different calibers and cartridges. But no way have 6.5's killed 51% of the moose.
51% isn't splitting hairs. That's over half of the hairs!
Exactly. You have well described your point and it is well taken.
Enjoy
Edit. If you wish, your splitting one hair out of a hundred to get 51 from 50. I’d call that splitting hairs, each to their own.
A rifle you've had a fair amount of practice with and can shoot accurately with easy familiarity is going to take a lot of game. Maybe even mount a brake if recoil mitigation makes you happier.
A ginormous moose cannon where you have to close your eyes and whimper about the damage it's about to do to your shoulder and wallet each time you start squeezing the trigger isn't going to deliver the best results. Don't go thinking more rifle is always better rifle.
A ginormous moose cannon where you have to close your eyes and whimper about the damage it's about to do to your shoulder and wallet each time you start squeezing the trigger isn't going to deliver the best results. Don't go thinking more rifle is always better rifle.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
Shot placement, and bullet selection. So long as you use a good bullet then there is no reason that the Creedmoor wouldn't be every bit as splendid a choice as the 7mm-08, 7x57, or 308. The problem is that so many people refuse to do a real apples to apples comparison. There are a lot of loads for the Creedmoor that are either straight up target loads, or they are softer bullets that can expand at lower velocities. Barnes seems to recommend around 1400 fps as their minimum impact velocity (that's for the 127gr .277" bullet so I can only assume that it is essentially the same for the 127gr .264" bullet) and they recommend keeping speeds a couple of hundred fps above the minimum to ensure proper performance. So even at 500 yards the Barnes LRX is going 1900 out of the CM still has, apparently, plenty of speed to expand properly. In fact, both the 7mm-08 and 308 perform similarly so it stands to reason that, if a 120gr bullet from a 7mm-08 and a 150 from a 308 will do the job, then a 127gr from a 6.5 should too. Personally I would prefer a little more ass behind the bullet for game like moose and would tend toward a 140gr 7mm, but for all intents and purposes, especially if 300 yards is a long shot where the OP hunts, then there is no reason that the 6.5CM would be a fine choice for the states purpose.
the 2 common hunting calibers in the parts of europe mentioned are indeed the 6.5x55 and the 7x57. If we are to guess.... I would guess that in the countries referred to by others, hunters are probably split fairy evenly over the 6.5x55 and the 7x57 as far as effectiveness on game. Both were wartime ammunition adopted by european hunters. The 6.5 Creed was created for target shooting and adopted by north american hunters.
The 6.5x55 and the 6.5 CM are near identical on paper and in the field but ideally , for energy at impact, they are 200 yard moose rifles. I'd go on to say that with a great shooter behind the rifle putting a 155 to 160gr pill moving at a modest 2500fps at the muzzle in a sweet spot, sure , the 6.5CM could be used for Canadian moose. Modern bullet designs make this possible I suppose.
BUT, I'll say again, if you want to hunt bigger animals than deer...... why not just buy a caliber that doesn't limit you.
With a .308, 30-06, 7mm rem mag..... and a few others you not only have a fine moose caliber that gets you well past 200 yards with enough energy from 160gr to 180gr bullets with high BC and some energy to spare at 300 and 400 yards.
The 6.5x55 and the 6.5 CM are near identical on paper and in the field but ideally , for energy at impact, they are 200 yard moose rifles. I'd go on to say that with a great shooter behind the rifle putting a 155 to 160gr pill moving at a modest 2500fps at the muzzle in a sweet spot, sure , the 6.5CM could be used for Canadian moose. Modern bullet designs make this possible I suppose.
BUT, I'll say again, if you want to hunt bigger animals than deer...... why not just buy a caliber that doesn't limit you.
With a .308, 30-06, 7mm rem mag..... and a few others you not only have a fine moose caliber that gets you well past 200 yards with enough energy from 160gr to 180gr bullets with high BC and some energy to spare at 300 and 400 yards.
- Location
- Western Manitoba
Without digging out the magazine articles - European hunting - so have to pass an actual practical shooting test in some countries (like Sweden) to get a licence to hunt - have to be able to hit a moving target, on demand. Many times, jurisdictions require guides, who have further game related training. And they send in reports. So articles that I think that I remember reading discuss cartridge used, range for kill, etc. Not like North America at all. And used to be 6.5x55, but I am sure was seeing multiple 30-06 and 300 Win Mag getting mentioned - because they work. No doubt bazillion "elg" have been and are taken with 6.5x55 - by hunters. But also the same knowledgeable and experienced types are moving to some North American rounds - because they work better, or has been salesman convincing shooters that the cartridges, and therefore the newly purchased guns, work better. Does nothing to diminish the older cartridges - like 303 British in Canada - hardly a "modern" choice for a moose rifle, any more. Tell that to a couple hundred thousand old guys from Newfoundland to Northern B.C. ...
With a mono bullet that isn't going to lose weight, you're looking at a 120 gr bullet that can do whatever the 155-160g grain will do. Its pretty much a 160 with about 22% of its mass taken away.
Or the 127 gr TTSX mentioned above.
With the speeds they are capable of (I have a box of 120gr GMX Superformance here that says 3050 FPS) I wouldn't be shy to try it on big game out to 300 yards.
The 6.5s have really been laying down big game for a long time. In Africa too.
More energy is great, but its gonna be spent in doing one of two things. Deforming and fragmenting a bullet, or penetrating animal. You can get a decently wide expanded bullet that still penetrates a lot of animal with a 6.5. If thats churning up heart and lungs you're golden.
Or the 127 gr TTSX mentioned above.
With the speeds they are capable of (I have a box of 120gr GMX Superformance here that says 3050 FPS) I wouldn't be shy to try it on big game out to 300 yards.
The 6.5s have really been laying down big game for a long time. In Africa too.
More energy is great, but its gonna be spent in doing one of two things. Deforming and fragmenting a bullet, or penetrating animal. You can get a decently wide expanded bullet that still penetrates a lot of animal with a 6.5. If thats churning up heart and lungs you're golden.
Stick a 120 -140 gr TTSX or a 130-140 Accubond from a 6.5 CM into the lungs thru the ribs and that moose will DIE ! RJ
Agreed! Where you hit them is more important than how big a gun you are using. That being said though proper bullet choice is still very important no matter what calibre used. IMO the 6.5 cartridges are kind of the all around sweet spot comprise, great accuracy, lower recoil and good killing power for most game at reasonable distances. Due to the lower recoil, most people tend to shoot them quite well. I know of many people who bought .300 or .338 Win. Mags. because they wanted a big gun to be able to drop animals like a lightning bolt only to develop a flinch so bad they couldn’t hit a damn thing with them. A very good friend of mine recently acquired a .300 Win. Mag. and said he was not impressed with it because it did not kill any better than his smaller calibres, BUT the real reason he says this is because he cannot shoot it as well as his smaller guns. Any moose with good hit in the vitals with a proper 6.5 bullet at a reasonable range IS a dead moose. Unless someone is planning on shooting moose at 1000 yards, they don’t need a .338 Lapua Magnum.
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BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
The big difference is the momentum. You lose about 15% of the momentum (at the muzzle) choosing that 120gr bullet at 3050 (in the 6.5CM) rather than a 150 at 2850 (example, 308). Now how much momentum you can lose before penetration drops off it a little nebulous due to bullet construction and the density of the medium. There is a tipping point, but I wouldn't be too worried about finding it at reasonable distances and typical game animals.
Yessir
Depending on the construction is really key. Unless its a very tough bullet I'm betting it loses that extra weight very quickly into the event, practically along with the initial expansion but that's my opinion/take on it.
Looking at wounding characteristics of even some bonded bullets like Accubonds and their performance in gel seems to bear that out though. At least a wider frontal area gets you something with a greater wound channel, but the copper monos even when expanded almost as widely still penetrate further than lead cored bullets when driven fast.
WhelanLad,
243 better than 6.5? Really? lol. Only between the ears, right?
